• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Wow, UK has lost freedom of speech

Darat said:
You have no way to determine if someone is a racist? I find that quite unbelievable!
Click to expand...
Certainly not as it relates to displaying their nation's flag. If you find it unbelievable that displaying their own nation's flag doesn't provide any plausible means to determine whether a person is or is not a racist, you might want to give the topic a wee bit more thought.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Certainly not as it relates to displaying their nation's flag. If you find it unbelievable that displaying their own nation's flag doesn't provide any plausible means to determine whether a person is or is not a racist, you might want to give the topic a wee bit more thought.
Click to expand...
I can't parse this in light of the full exchange.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Certainly not as it relates to displaying their nation's flag. If you find it unbelievable that displaying their own nation's flag doesn't provide any plausible means to determine whether a person is or is not a racist, you might want to give the topic a wee bit more thought.
Click to expand...

Or I might have lived here for over 60 years and experienced what goes on and how especially one iteration of that flag has been used (as discussed by several folk up thread)?

That's always an option when we are talking about things UK-ian...
 
P.J. Denyer said:
We considered Al-Qaeda an enemy of the UK when they committed 9/11 even though that wasn't an attack on us.
Click to expand...

In England & Wales, Hamas is a proscribed terrorist organisation. And as such, it's a criminal offence for a person to demonstrate support for Hamas (or for any other organisation that's similarly proscribed in the UK).

A case in point:, the UK Govt recently (around a couple of months ago IIRC) proscribed a group called Palestine Action as terrorist. Since then, pro-Palestine protesters who don't mind being arrested have been bringing to demonstrations simple signs saying "I support Palestine Action". And probably hundreds of them by now have indeed been arrested. But how the courts will deal with these levels of disobedience is - I think - yet to be determined.
 
zooterkin said:
Don't they?
Click to expand...

Category:Overturned convictions in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Garrison

Thread 'Largest ever miscarriage of justice?'

So some years back the Post Office in the UK installed a new computer system and lo and behold the system revealed a large number of cases of what looked like theft and embezzlement. The accused insisted the computer system was at fault, the Post Office insisted it was perfect and many people were bankrupted, disgraced, convicted and in some cases imprisoned.

What comes next is all too predictable, evidence emerges that the Post Office knew the system was flawed, the post office was sued and forced to payout compensation to those who lost livelihoods. Today it was the turn of those...

Your much vaunted courts concluded that the "truth" in this case, was that all these sub-postmasters were criminals - rather than the actual truth, which was they shafted by a faulty computer system, about which the Post Office and their head staff told lie, after lie, after lie, after lie, after lie - and all those lies were determined to be "truth" by your arbiter of truth, that 500 year old court system you seem so proud of. It concluded these lies were the truth over 950 times in 20 years.
 
Last edited:
Darat said:
I can't parse this in light of the full exchange.
Click to expand...
Allow me to help you out:

Darat said:
Emily's Cat said:
Darat said:
Emily's Cat said:
Darat said:
Hercules56 said:
But apparently having a flag on your door or your car or your backpack is seen as racism.
Click to expand...
No it isn't, it's seen as racism when it is being used by racists to promote their racism.
Click to expand...
If it's only seen as racism when it's being used by racists to promote their racism... how do you know they're racists in the first place?
Click to expand...
The same way we all do.
Click to expand...
That's a non-answer, Darat. It's damned close to admitting that there's no actual basis for determining when it is and when it is not racism, and it allows malicious assumptions that inflame the public.
Click to expand...
You have no way to determine if someone is a racist? I find that quite unbelievable!
Click to expand...

Your argument appears to be tautological and undefined - it's racist for a person to display your own nation's flag when the person is a racist and is promoting their racism, and you can tell that it's racist of them to display their own flag because they're racists.

At this point, you've provided no description or elaboration or even a hypothetical scenario that indicates when Alex's display of your flag is racist, but Sam's display is not.
 
Darat said:
"that arouse reasonable suspicion of support for the groups."

The key point is about support, as was mentioned earlier I could have a Hamas flag with a skull and crossbones over it and the waving of that wouldn't be illegal, if we were filming a show or movie it wouldn't be illegal. It's the support that makes it illegal not the waving of the flag itself. The flag is not illegal in the UK.
Click to expand...
Clearly Hamas is worse than the Nazi's as well.
 
Ziggurat said:
Isn't it? Shouldn't it be? If the UK is not an enemy of Hamas, that's a damning indictment of the UK.
Click to expand...
At least we know that the Nazis were never the enemy of the UK, minor disagreements in the late 30's and early 40's not withstanding.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Certainly not as it relates to displaying their nation's flag. If you find it unbelievable that displaying their own nation's flag doesn't provide any plausible means to determine whether a person is or is not a racist, you might want to give the topic a wee bit more thought.
Click to expand...
Got it flying a nazi flag is not a racist act. It is the flag of a nation and therefor can not be racist. QED
 
ponderingturtle said:
At least we know that the Nazis were never the enemy of the UK, minor disagreements in the late 30's and early 40's not withstanding.
Click to expand...
Watching Churchill's speeches it is interesting how he often emphasises the enemies are Nazis not Germans. In contrast to WW1 the British were surprisingly not anti-German in WW2. I have met a surprisingly large number of German POWs who never left Britain.
 
Hercules56 said:
That's for FOREIGN terror groups. Not domestic. There is no such thing in the USA as a official domestic terrorist organization.
Click to expand...
You're waffling back and forth again. We were talking about being an enemy of the State. For some reason, you think that has to be another sovereign state that we have declared war against. That is not true. Here:

Enemy of the state - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
As you can see, an enemy of the state can be anything from a suspected individual on up to a sovereign nation or terrorist organization or freaking ethnicity.

And you remain factually wrong that the US government does not recognize domestic terrorist organizations.
 
Last edited:
ponderingturtle said:
Got it flying a nazi flag is not a racist act. It is the flag of a nation and therefor can not be racist. QED
Click to expand...
Waving the Nazi Germany flag can be seen as a racist act, since racism was official govt policy. Same with waving the flag of South Africa until the end of Apartheid.
 
several posts moved to AAH.
A reminder, this thread is about freedom of speech in the UK. It is not about trans issues or US employment law, nor about other members.

Thank you for your attention in this matter.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: zooterkin
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom