Merged Charlie Kirk shot at Utah Valley University event. / Charlie Kirk Shot And Killed

[d4m10n]

Kind of weird that you give yourself permission to use the term “fascist” while claiming “Nazi” incites violence

regardless, i don't think it's realistic or even a good idea to ask people to stop making fair and valid comparisons claiming that it incites violence.

Did I say incites? My apologies, that is a legal term of art and I should not have used it.

The obvious conclusion being that it's the cause of the violence against people we think are fascist, right?

I was carefully distinguishing between fascists (a set of ideas and practices which describe various regimes over the years) and Nazis (fascism plus at least a couple more distinguishing elements, most notably genocide). That said, the "only good Nazi is a dead Nazi" meme is amazingly popular on Bluesky—look it up on there as a string between quotation marks if you want to verify—and you may draw your own conclusions about whether lethal violence is said to be the solution by those same folks when they characterize their political opponents as morally equivalent to Nazis. It seems to me that the people pushing these memes are encouraging stochastic terrorism^WP and probably they already know or suspect that they are doing this.

they've already built camps and are using secret police style squads of masked men that are collecting people to fill them based on race.

Creating camps based on ethnicity wouldn't distinguish Nazis from FDR-era Dems, much less fascists more generally. It remains to be seen whether these new camps are designed merely to serve as an upscaled version of ordinary ICE deportation operations or (as Laura Loomer openly fantasizes) to function as death camps for all Hispanic Americans regardless of citizenship status. I suspect the former but—as someone who checks Hispanic on gov't forms—try to stay woke about the latter.

 

[AmyStrange]

Did I say incites? My apologies, that is a legal term of art and I should not have used it.

I was carefully distinguishing between fascists (a set of ideas and practices which describe various regimes over the years) and Nazis (fascism plus at least a couple more distinguishing elements, most notably genocide). That said, the "only good Nazi is a dead Nazi" meme is amazingly popular on Bluesky—look it up on there as a string between quotation marks if you want to verify—and you may draw your own conclusions about whether lethal violence is said to be the solution by those same folks when they characterize their political opponents as morally equivalent to Nazis. It seems to me that the people pushing these memes are encouraging stochastic terrorism^WP and probably they already know or suspect that they are doing this.

Creating camps based on ethnicity wouldn't distinguish Nazis from FDR-era Dems, much less fascists more generally. It remains to be seen whether these new camps are designed merely to serve as an upscaled version of ordinary ICE deportation operations or (as Laura Loomer openly fantasizes) to function as death camps for all Hispanic Americans regardless of citizenship status. I suspect the former but—as someone who checks Hispanic on gov't forms—try to stay woke about the latter.

Yeah, so what?

Got any proof that the maga weirdoes aren't the ones posting this just to "own the libs"?

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

 

[plague311]

I say I'm pro abortion, the right calls me a left-wing baby-murderer.
I say that transwomen are male, the left calls me a far right bigot and tranny-basher
I say I support background checks for gun ownership, the right calls me a leftist constitution hater
I say that only speech inciting actual violence should be restricted, I get it from both sides, the left calls me an insensitive far-right racist, the right calls me a radical left ◊◊◊◊◊◊-lover.
I've had enough. To hell with all of you - y'all enjoy your pathetic tribal squabbles - I'm out!

This happens to everyone. If you don't like your views challenged then perhaps don't go into the threads where your views are challenged.

I hate to be Captain Obvious here, but perhaps it might help for someone to say it to you. It's pretty standard procedure for right wingers to dislike your left wing views, and left wingers to dislike your right wing views. When you say you're pro-abortion then the right will call you a baby-murderer....that's expected behavior. Same with the left calling you a far right bigot. The reason is because that's how those positions are viewed by those that oppose them. I don't get why you're so butthurt about it and if you feel that way it shouldn't bother you to defend your positions; however, not all of us give a ◊◊◊◊ about the trans stuff. The trans-person in this case doesn't sound like they had much to do with what happened to Kirk. They cooperated and didn't seem to encourage the killing at all. That's why we aren't discussing them.

Lastly, this isn't an airport, you don't need to announce your departure. You can just leave, but by all means feel free to stamp your feet on the way out.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

alright, they've already built camps and are using secret police style squads

I'd say they're a bit closer to Ordpo battalions, but, yeah.

 

[The Common Potato]

This thread demonstrates why it's best just to ignore Amnericans. Smarcooky for president!

 

[Reformed Offlian]

This thread demonstrates why it's best just to ignore Amnericans. Smarcooky for president!

Did you mean to type "Amnericans"? As in Americans with amnesia or something. Because that's brilliant.

If you did it by accident, it's even more brilliant.

 

[johnny karate]

I was carefully distinguishing between fascists (a set of ideas and practices which describe various regimes over the years) and Nazis (fascism plus at least a couple more distinguishing elements, most notably genocide). That said, the "only good Nazi is a dead Nazi" meme is amazingly popular on Bluesky—look it up on there as a string between quotation marks if you want to verify—and you may draw your own conclusions about whether lethal violence is said to be the solution by those same folks when they characterize their political opponents as morally equivalent to Nazis. It seems to me that the people pushing these memes are encouraging stochastic terrorism^WP and probably they already know or suspect that they are doing this.

You act as if we don't have data to make determinations about what you're wondering.

How many acts of political violence can you point to that were the result of anti-Nazi sentiments?

Creating camps based on ethnicity wouldn't distinguish Nazis from FDR-era Dems, much less fascists more generally. It remains to be seen whether these new camps are designed merely to serve as an upscaled version of ordinary ICE deportation operations or (as Laura Loomer openly fantasizes) to function as death camps for all Hispanic Americans regardless of citizenship status. I suspect the former but—as someone who checks Hispanic on gov't forms—try to stay woke about the latter.

At what point do you think it becomes appropriate to use the term "Nazi"? Do we have to wait until we actually have death camps?

 

[plague311]

At what point do you think it becomes appropriate to use the term "Nazi"? Do we have to wait until we actually have death camps?

Yes, anything short of that would just be Diet Nazi.

 

[dirtywick]

Did I say incites? My apologies, that is a legal term of art and I should not have used it.

idk what term you’d prefer.

Creating camps based on ethnicity wouldn't distinguish Nazis from FDR-era Dems, much less fascists more generally. It remains to be seen whether these new camps are designed merely to serve as an upscaled version of ordinary ICE deportation operations or (as Laura Loomer openly fantasizes) to function as death camps for all Hispanic Americans regardless of citizenship status. I suspect the former but—as someone who checks Hispanic on gov't forms—try to stay woke about the latter.

maybe you should, seems it depends how hispanic you look and how stereotypically hispanic your job is right now.

in any case, i think it’s fair label. if you prefer simply fascist they also say that more accurate label is creating political violence too, so we’re not that far apart. except i look white enough to pass

 

[dirtywick]

I don't think it's accurate to call the modern Republican party neo-nazis. It would be more accurate to call them fascists who are way friendlier with neo-nazis than any major political party should be.

all comparisons are imperfect. reformed offian below said they’re more like the ordpo battalions, and that may be right. idk what that even is though. so i think in a casual sense nazi is fine, they check enough boxes and it gets the point across that they’re doing some really nazish stuff. even if it’s not purely correct, everyone gets my meaning

however, it does always make a giant distraction from whatever point i’m trying to make. but, less and less of a distraction. maybe once whatever the next step in their by the book nazi fascist takeover happens i’ll be able to use it freely.

 

[stanfr]

This thread is beginning to look like a rancid, hate-fuelled rage fest. Anyone who even slightly questions narratives other than their own gets dog-piled..

Welcome to Thursday.

The reality is that both progressives and ultra conservatives are equally responsible for the extreme tribalism that exists in politics today.

Hmmm, that is one for another thread, and this one is likely to be removed but I'd rather respond in a timely fashion. I think it is very arguable in a skeptic's forum that the increase in tribalism is coming mainly from the right, not equally. It has been a shift in narrative dictated by the right and by those who hold power.

Progressives support the idea that men who claim to be women should be allowed to compete in women's sports against all of the science that says it's dangerous and unfair

I know a lot of progressives--the majority (not all) I know do not say biological men should be able to compete in women's sports. Most would agree about the 'unfair' part but maybe not the 'dangerous' part.

They also hold he view that people should be punished for speech that offends people or makes them feel bad.

False. Offensive speech can be differentiated from speech that invites or incites violence.

Ultra-conservatives support the idea that women should not be permitted to have bodily autonomy, that gun ownership should be widespread and unrestricted with no checks, and that
free speech should be absolute and unrestricted.

Obviously not, as recent events demonstrate. Any speech that offends their bigoted views is fair game to be punished.

ALL of these positions offend most centrists such as me.

If you are a skeptic and especially if you are an atheist, the right does not see you as a centrist, it sees you as a rabid radical leftist!

I say that transwomen are male, the left calls me a far right bigot and tranny-basher

The reason I left 'that' thread was not because I disagree with the conclusion (that biological men are male) but with the way it was presented, by insensitive people. It is how you approach the subject. Yes, trans women are biological (per consensus of biologists) male, but that does not even break the surface of sex and gender identity and the myriad of concerns that follow. You can't always let the statistical outliers define the agenda, but that's what is argued...

The reality is that both progressives and ultra conservatives are equally responsible for the extreme tribalism that exists in politics today.

Getting back to this...the statistical reality is that core 'progressive' ideas are actually popular, things like common sense gun control, available health care, affordable education, etc etc...that is why folks like Bernie get support from both the 'left' and the 'right' And yet, the dialogue is guided and formed by the extremist views--yes partly on the left but overwhelmingly on the right. The fringe ideas that have been normalized by the right, like replacement theory, and more generally--science denial.

 

[ponderingturtle]

This thread is beginning to look like a rancid, hate-fuelled rage fest. Anyone who even slightly questions narratives other than their own gets dog-piled...
The reality is that both progressives and ultra conservatives are equally responsible for the extreme tribalism that exists in politics today.

And people don't lay enough of the blame for Jim Crow on the blacks, if only they had behaved better they wouldn't have needed those laws.

 

[Resume]

Sure it is Leon, sure it is.
Elon Musk
https://x.com/elonmusk
https://x.com/elonmusk

@elonmusk
SPLC is guilty of incitement to murder Charlie KirkQuote@JackPosobiec·8h

One day before Charlie was shot and killed, he was featured in the SPLC's "Hatewatch" newsletter x.com/MonicaPaigeTV

The right wing toning down the rhetoric . . . . You can't appease thes mother ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊; the only thing is to oppose them while it is still possible, and that window is closing fast.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

I also wonder how much the MAGA cult would accept free speech if a muslim citizen were to take Kirk's speeches and replaces all MAGA trigger words like 'transsexual', 'liberal' etc with the word 'Jew'.

They'd be jealous for not thinking it up first. About the only problem they'd have with your scenario is the religious identity of the person who did the (hypothetical) deed. "The jew" is still after all their ultimate bogeyman and the shadowy cause of all they consider evil.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Sure it is Leon, sure it is.
Elon Musk
https://x.com/elonmusk
https://x.com/elonmusk

@elonmusk
SPLC is guilty of incitement to murder Charlie KirkQuote@JackPosobiec·8h

The right wing toning down the rhetoric . . . . You can't appease thes mother ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊; the only thing is to oppose them while it is still possible, and that window is closing fast.

Sure, the murderer led a normal life without homicidal urges, but then he heard a podcast and just up and shot Kirk. Sure, Elonia. Sure.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

For example, just take the language: “Lying Press”. “Enemy Within”. “Enemy of the People”. “Vermin”. And many more examples.

The language, the Nazi salutes, speeches plagiarizing Nazi speeches. They're going out of their way to build that image themselves.
If someone dislikes being called a Nazi or fascist, all they have to do is stop associating with a clearly fascist movement that imitates the NSDAP
You'd think that wouldn't be such an IQ-test to people, but it's the far-right, so.

 

[Helen]

Trump on immigrants; "they're poisoning the blood of our country".

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Trump on immigrants; "they're poisoning the blood of our country".

Does anyone ever remind Trump of his own origins? Or that of some of his wives?

Mebbe they should...

 

[Norman Alexander]

Does anyone ever remind Trump of his own origins? Or that of some of his wives?

Mebbe they should...

New York slums?

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Trump on immigrants; "they're poisoning the blood of our country".

I forgot that one. It’s a prime example.