Merged Charlie Kirk shot at Utah Valley University event. / Charlie Kirk Shot And Killed

[AmyStrange]

If some left wing activist were to publicly say...
Donald Trump is a bumbling, dementia-filled Alzheimer's, corrupt, tyrant who should honestly be put in prison and/or given the death penalty for his crimes against America",
...would you criticise them for saying it? Would you find such speech acceptable?
Be honest with your answer

I would and have done exactly that.

ETA: To be clear (like Resume says below), I would only criticize the part they have highlighted. The rest is true, although, I'm not sure about the Alzheimer part, but the fat clown certainly has some of the symptoms.

 

[Resume]

If some left wing activist were to publicly say...Donald Trump is a bumbling, dementia-filled Alzheimer's, corrupt, tyrant who should honestly be put in prison and/or given the death penalty for his crimes against America",...would you criticise them for saying it? Would you find such speech acceptable?
Be honest with your answer

I would criticize the highlighted. Because it's stupid.

ETA: However, I think there's good evidence that he's bumbling, diminished and a corrupt tyrant, and deserving of criticism as well.

 

[dirtywick]

He didn't exactly strike me as an independent thinker.

did he strike you as an honest person?

 

[johnny karate]

Were you hoping I'd hold you all to a lower standard than Charlie Kirk?

A) I'm not aware that anyone here has advocated for Trump's death like Kirk advocated for Biden's death, so we're not even talking about the same standard, and B) you should absolutely hold powerful and influential people like Kirk to a higher standards of behavior and conduct than random people without power or influence.

 

[johnny karate]

You say "absence of any explanation" as if you've already checked, but his audience wouldn't ask for one.

#MAGA folks already believe Biden did a treason because their Dearest Leader says so; Kirk's only contribution was to spell out two possible penalties.

His contribution was to advocate for those penalties, one of which was death, and to use his power and influence to validate the deranged beliefs of his audience.

 

[d4m10n]

did he strike you as an honest person?

A bit, tbh.

I've a few years of experience being around fully paid-up conservative ideologues, and that's just what they sound like with their censors off.

you should absolutely hold powerful and influential people like Kirk to a higher standards of behavior and conduct than random people without power or influence.

If you're publishing ideas with the intent to make them readable to the entire world (e.g. social media, ISF) I'm going to hold you to the same standard as anyone else doing the same thing, despite my profound respect for Uncle Ben Parker.

His contribution was to advocate for those penalties, one of which was death, and to use his power and influence to validate the deranged and beliefs of his audience.

And...? This is how MAGA people sound. What did you expect from the "Lock Her Up!" crowd? They've promoted abuse of the justice system since 2015.

 

[johnny karate]

No he wasn't. His parents are conservative, but he sure as ◊◊◊◊ isn't. Are you unfamiliar with the phenomenon of kids who don't share political views with their parents?

And the shooter might not be a tranny, but he was dating one.

Looking forward to your evidence that he had leftwing politic beliefs.

 

[johnny karate]

Are you saying conservative Mormon parents don't fantasize about killing fascists?

Are you saying that only people on the left are opposed to fascism?

 

[d4m10n]

Are you saying that only people on the left are opposed to fascism?

Sort of amazing how you jumped from "killing" to "opposing" here.

I'm going to call this move the reverse Robinson.

 

[johnny karate]

Whether or not I want to believe it, that's still where the evidence, the actual evidence, points. I'm not the one picking an un-credible witness over a credible one.

Your evidence is hearsay. You have no direct evidence Robinson actually was politically left.

And it should be noted that what his mother specifically cited as "leftist" was "not being anti-gay and anti-trans". I'm sure it would come as a surprise to all the gay and trans Republicans to find out they're actually leftists.

 

[johnny karate]

Sort of amazing how you jumped from "killing" to "opposing" here.

I'm going to call this move the reverse Robinson.

One follows the other. Obviously, if someone wants to kill fascists, they are opposed to them.

So again: Are you claiming that only the left is opposed to fascism?

 

[johnny karate]

Kirk called for a process which would result in imprisonment and (possibly) execution.

This is precisely what I'd expect people to call for if they sincerely believe Trump's claims about Biden's treasonous crimes against America.

It's adorable that you think the people who had a gallows waiting outside the Capitol for Mike Pence would follow a legitimate process in their pursuit of their fantasies to execute Biden.

 

[johnny karate]

You realize that we cannot simply catapult individuals (even guilty ones) into prison yards, right? There is a lot of paperwork which has to come first.

They're kidnapping people off the street without anything resembling due process and you honestly think that this regime sees filling out the correct paperwork as part of their endgame?

 

[johnny karate]

So if we look at actual violence, where's it coming from? Is it mostly coming from the right? No, it's not.

Requires citation.

 

[johnny karate]

If you're publishing ideas with the intent to make them readable to the entire world (e.g. social media, ISF) I'm going to hold you to the same standard as anyone else doing the same thing, despite my profound respect for Uncle Ben Parker.

What's the standard and where have you held Kirk to it?

And...? This is how MAGA people sound. What did you expect from the "Lock Her Up!" crowd? They've promoted abuse of the justice system since 2015.

The "And?" is the part where you misrepresented Kirk's contribution.

 

[d4m10n]

Are you claiming that only the left is opposed to fascism?

Given that I wrote "killing" instead of "opposing" I find it very bizarre that you'd leap to this question; surely we agree that opposing is a much broader category than opposing with lethal force.

It's adorable that you think the people who had a gallows waiting outside the Capitol for Mike Pence would follow a legitimate process in their pursuit of their fantasies to execute Biden.

It's wild that you think MAGA in general were waiting with a gallows for Mike Pence. Once again, you leap to generalize far too much from far too little.

They're kidnapping people off the street without anything resembling due process and you honestly think that this regime sees filling out the correct paperwork as part of their endgame?

Talking about MAGA influencers is not the same as talking about the regime, but I would be surprised to learn that the regime is pulling people off the street and putting them on death row without any judicial process.

What's the standard and where have you held Kirk to it?

Oh ◊◊◊◊ is this the Kirk condemnation thread? My bad, I've been accidentally crossposting from the thread about his assassination.

 

[AmyStrange]

Talking about MAGA influencers is not the same as talking about the regime, but I would be surprised to learn that the regime is pulling people off the street and putting them on death row without any judicial process.

What if they're deported to a country that might get them killed or maybe even executed?

I admit that I haven't seen any data to support this, but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[angrysoba]

It is different. Whether or not it's acceptable is another matter, one which I'm not arguing here. Why is it different? An ordinary citizen cannot enact a death penalty. A death penalty is the end result of a judicial process, which not only requires a lot of participants, it requires rather specific participants. Even if I wanted Joe Biden to be executed for treason (I don't), there's nothing that I, as an individual private citizen, could really do to make that happen. The most I could ever do, even if I were so inclined, is vote for politicians who might appoint judges and prosecutors more inclined to pursue such a process. But good luck with that.

But an assassination? Murder? Anyone can do that, on their own.

Remember the term "stochastic terrorism"? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

Or, having failed to win an election, maybe you could just storm the Congress, stop the vote, replace the slate of electors with your own, make a mockery of the democratic system and Romanov the Biden administration in a cellar…. After a “proper trial” of course.

You remember January 6th? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

 

[johnny karate]

Given that I wrote "killing" instead of "opposing" I find it very bizarre that you'd leap to this question; surely we agree that opposing is a much broader category than opposing with lethal force.

Correct, but it starts with opposing, as you just admitted. If your argument is that only a leftist would kill a fascist and therefore Robinson was a leftist, all you've done is beg the question.

It's wild that you think MAGA in general were waiting with a gallows for Mike Pence. Once again, you leap to generalize far too much from far too little.

It's wild that you don't think the people waiting for Pence with a gallows are representative of Kirk and MAGA in general.

Talking about MAGA influencers is not the same as talking about the regime, but I would be surprised to learn that the regime is pulling people off the street and putting them on death row without any judicial process.

Kirk was a mouthpiece for the regime. He was a one of the chief proponents of their policies and propaganda.

And that you think an authoritarian regime that has abandoned due process and constitutional order is going to stop there and go no further with their authoritarianism is breathtakingly naive.

Oh ◊◊◊◊ is this the Kirk condemnation thread? My bad, I've been accidentally crossposting from the thread about his assassination.

Got it, no actual standard then, just contrarianism. Thanks for confirming.

 

[dirtywick]

damion, would you agree that kirk’s job was making viral propaganda clips?