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Wow, UK has lost freedom of speech

Hercules56 said:
So you are saying simply marching with a Nazi flag, should be seen as inciting violence and criminal?

Why should this also not be for marching with a Hamas flag or a Hezbollah flag?
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Because you are being deliberately stupid.
 
catsmate said:
Of course I don't believe in your mythical "absolute free speech" drivel. I live in the Real World.


Yes I have. But you appear to be claiming that flying the flag of Palestine, a country recognised by the vast majority of the planet, is somehow threatening.
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Yes waving the Palestinian flag in front of a synagogue or a Jewish school or a Jewish owned business is indeed threatening to many people. Just like waving a Hamas flag or a Hezbollah flag.
 
Carrot Flower King said:
As pointed out earlier, some of those stories are not as presented: some are just plain inaccurate, some are skewed, and it is not clear that some happened at all.
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Wrong. All of those stories I posted about actually happened as reported. The police have commented and officially responded about them. In many cases, there is actual video of the arrests, as well as Court records.
 
Hercules56 said:
So they are against all human beings? That makes no sense and I don't think it is accurate.
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Most people could understand that saying "nazis are anti-people" is a figure of speech, not an assertion that they are "against all human beings". I don't believe your claim that you are genuinely befuddled, especially considering how youve been rolling during the rest of this discussion.
 
Hercules56 said:
Yes waving the Palestinian flag in front of a synagogue or a Jewish school or a Jewish owned business is indeed threatening to many people. Just like waving a Hamas flag or a Hezbollah flag.
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The first Intifada and the second Intifada has left a very bad taste in the mouths of many Jews. Many of them see waving the Palestinian flag in their face as an act of intimidation. I don't necessarily agree that it should be considered a threat of violence.

But waving the Hamas flag or the Hezbollah flag is 100% a threat of violence, and if you guys think waving a Nazi flag should be seen as a violent threat than surely the same should be for the Hezbollah or Hamas flag. These groups have committed terrible acts of deadly violence against many civilians.

If the Nazi flag is bad but the Hamas and Hezbollah flag is okay, then all of this talk about hate speech and threats of violence by mere words is nothing but a sad hypocritical joke.
 
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Hercules56 said:
The first Intifada and the second Intifada has left a very bad taste in the mouths of many Jews. Many of them see waving the Palestinian flag in their face as an act of intimidation. I don't necessarily agree that it should be considered a threat of violence.

But waving the Hamas flag or the Hezbollah flag is 100% a threat of violence, and if you guys think waving a Nazi flag should be seen as a violent threat than surely the same should be for the Hezbollah or Hamas flag. These groups have committed terrible acts of deadly violence against many civilians.

If the Nazi flag is bad but the Hamas and Hezbollah flag is okay, then all of this talk about hate speech and threats of violence by mere words is nothing but a sad hypocritical joke.
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Would waving a German flag be an act of intimidation?
 
Mojo said:
there's only one Germany these days.
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There are certain historical German flags that are used by nationalists that I personally find offensive and intimidating

But maybe others do not.

However waving the Hamas flag or the Hezbollah flag is literally an act in support of violence and clear incitement to violence.

Would be amazing if folks would agree with this simple concept.
 
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Hercules56 said:
The first Intifada and the second Intifada has left a very bad taste in the mouths of many Jews. Many of them see waving the Palestinian flag in their face as an act of intimidation. I don't necessarily agree that it should be considered a threat of violence.

But waving the Hamas flag or the Hezbollah flag is 100% a threat of violence, and if you guys think waving a Nazi flag
should be seen as a violent threat than surely the same should be for the Hezbollah or Hamas flag. These groups have committed terrible acts of deadly violence against many civilians.

If the Nazi flag is bad but the Hamas and Hezbollah flag is okay, then all of this talk about hate speech and threats of violence by mere words is nothing but a sad hypocritical joke.
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Who has claimed that?
 
catsmate said:
Of course I don't believe in your mythical "absolute free speech" drivel. I live in the Real World.


Yes I have. But you appear to be claiming that flying the flag of Palestine, a country recognised by the vast majority of the planet, is somehow threatening.
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And it doesn't seem to matter to those countries that they are recognising a government run by Hamas, a terrorist organisation with the stated aim of global extermination of all Jews.

In so doing, those countries are handing Hamas credibility, and validation of their aims.
 
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Darat said:
One is a flag of a sort-of-nation, one is the flag of Nazism; we have no reason to consider that the person (outside of say filming a TV programme) flying that flag is not a Nazi, and Nazi ideology requires the murdering of a few millions of their fellow citizens. Quite different things. That is why promoting Nazism should be a criminal offence in of itself.
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So you believe waving a Nazi flag should be a criminal act. Do you believe the same for waiving a Hamas or Hezbollah flag? And if not why not?
 
Thermal said:
The last time that flag was openly flying, we launched a World War against them. Shouldn't really be controversial to say 'yeah we don't accept this'. What are we supposed to do, protect them till they get their way, then kill them again? They are predefined as criminals, and repugnant to public discourse.
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Does the same go for people supporting Hamas and Hezbollah? . If not why not?
 
Darat said:
I've already explained that - look up thread.
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No, you have not. I looked all on page four and five and you never have tried to explain why you think displaying the Nazi flag should be seen as a threat of violence, but displaying the Hezbollah or Hamas flag should be okay.

Considering the history of very deadly violence against innocent civilians committed by Hezbollah and Hamas I can see no logical reason to view them any different than waving a Nazi flag.
 
Thermal said:
I'm not entirely positive on this and would welcome clarification from a UKer, but I think thier arresting is much less consequential than ours, really little more than a formalized questioning. Last couple times I was arrested, I was cuffed and tossed in holding while I was given one shot at making bail before going to county. The UK concept of arrest is kinda genteel.

Eta: this guy was not fined, cited, or charged, and no restrictions put on him. Near as I can see, it was a strongarm questioning about possible hate crime activity. Not exactly Thoughtcrime territory.
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There is a bit of a difference though. In the US, the police cannot compel you to go to the station and talk to them, without some crime having been committed. You can be detained as a person of interest or a material witness to a crime, but even then you aren't obligated to actually speak to them at all - you have the right to remain silent, and you have the right to a lawyer being present during any interaction you have with the cops.

In the UK, you can be compelled to go to the station and talk to the police for a "non-crime incident". You've committed no crime, but you are still required to go to the station and interact with the police. If you fail to do so, then you can be arrested.
 
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