Merged Charlie Kirk shot at Utah Valley University event. / Charlie Kirk Shot And Killed

As we all know, what's polarizing and leads to hatred and violence isn't that the far-right says horrible things, but that we point out that the far-right says horrible things 🙃.
No. It's not that you point out when the far right says horrible things, but that you excuse and justify it when the far left says horrible things.
 
:rolleyes: "deplorables"

Trump is a detestably human. That said, both political houses are â—Šâ—Šâ—Šâ—Šâ—Šâ—Š up and fanning the flames of civil unrest and I'm not okay with it. Don't ignore the rhetoric and dehumanization coming from your own party - the only way to calm this down is for ALL of us to speak out against politicians and partisans engaging in narratives that incent violence, AND call out media for amping it up.
Thankfully being like Kirk and merely calling for the death of all homosexuals does not count as a call to violence.
 
Dozens of democrat politicians for several years now have LITERALLY called the republican party fascist, and insisted that it's an existential threat to democracy - do you think that has no part in the increasingly unstable nature of our society?

As much as the right making political violence part of their identity?

No, not really.
 
Expose Charlie's Mvrderers
@forcharliekirk1
A searchable database of over 20,000 individuals celebrating Charlie Kirk's murder will soon be available on our website.
It will be searchable by general location, employer, and industry type. Political violence can never be the answer.

But apparently doxxing can be.

This is the kind of stuff that makes me worried. Political violence can't be the answer... and publicizing who your political opponents are in order to make them targets for political violence is pretty damned hypocritical.
 
The family may be wrong. It's possible they don't understand the groyper thing any more than I do. It would be easy to see that through their lens and misunderstand the basis for his behavior.

eta: And that idiot FBI director couldn't persuade me the sun was going to rise in the east tomorrow. Actual evidence I'll follow. Him, just no.
Skepticism is not the same thing as cynicism.
 
I'm on the fence on this. Over the past 50 years, more actual violence has been committed by right wing extremists than by left wing extremists. But the sentiment about the acceptability of political violence has been shifting over the past couple of decades, and shifting pretty significantly. Liberals (especially those who consider themselves very liberal) have a higher tolerance for political violence than conservatives do, and young people do as well. Given that those two cohorts have a very strong correlation, we're looking at about 1/4 of young liberals who believe that violence used to achieve political ends is justifiable.

That's something we should all be concerned about.

I remain more concerned about who is actually committing and celebrating political violence than what some random poll says.
 
This is the kind of stuff that makes me worried. Political violence can't be the answer... and publicizing who your political opponents are in order to make them targets for political violence is pretty damned hypocritical.

You are so close to getting it.
 
Skepticism is not the same thing as cynicism.
Very good. Tomorrow's vocabulary words will be non sequitur and unassociated.

eta: Jeese, I'm not sure which is worse, my spelling or my typing. And autocorrect doesn't seem to be helping either. Sorry about that.
 
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:rolleyes: "deplorables"

Trump is a detestably human. That said, both political houses are â—Šâ—Šâ—Šâ—Šâ—Šâ—Š up and fanning the flames of civil unrest and I'm not okay with it. Don't ignore the rhetoric and dehumanization coming from your own party - the only way to calm this down is for ALL of us to speak out against politicians and partisans engaging in narratives that incent violence, AND call out media for amping it up.
It wasn't good politics but I think subsequent events have showed that a lot of Trump supporters are antidemocratic misogynistic racists, which I think is pretty deplorable.
 
No. It's not that you point out when the far right says horrible things, but that you excuse and justify it when the far left says horrible things.

Let's play a game.

You provide examples of the most incendiary rhetoric from the "far left" and I'll do the same for the "far right".

Whoever provides the most examples from people with the most influence and power wins.

You first.
 
Reading about it now it sure seems to be, and I was completely ignorant of all of it until the last day or two. And I've made my living in computers for 40 years, played computer games, spend a fair amount of time in various on-line places, and watch some gaming commentary. And yet I had no idea. I can't imagine how out of that loop your basic middle class mormon family would be,
...and, subsequently, how out of the loop prosecutors are likely to be. We've had the benefit of an explanation from someone familiar with the culture. And the nuance of it has come as a surprise to most of us here, most of whom are reasonably well educated and attentive. But prosecutors will not care. Gov. Cox will not care. Kash Patel will not care. The case against Robinson will have to be a simple narrative that appeals on the basis of only one or two easily-understood principles. Prosecutors will never try to talk about something as apparently alien and nuanced as gamer culture, even when it would improve the chances of a conviction. The Reagan-era adage, "If you're explaining, you're losing," is a rule of thumb in criminal prosecutions. And it appears those one or two principles are emerging as trans alliance (or trans reliationship) and liberal university indoctrination. I'll bet that the narrative the prosecution will go with is that he was a good, wholesome kid who got radicalized into woke, left-wing politics at Utah State and further radicalized by being in a relationship with a transitioning person—a noted left-wing talking point.

Nor does explaining the nuance really work as a defense. If we suspect that it would work the same way as trying to explain gang culture to juries, that has failed more often than it has succeeded. If the defense brings in expert witnesses on gang culture to explain how threats etc. are not typically to be taken seriously, it rarely lands with the jury. It comes off as a lot of overthought handwaving. If Robinson's defense tries to introduce the gamer- and Groyper-culture background, it may not avail them much.

As I explained above, motive is only partly relevant to the legal case. To charge first-degree murder, you have to show evidence of premeditation, but that can be just as well established by circumstantial evidence as by testimony. The fact that messages of any kind were written on the cartridge casings, for example, is enough to establish premeditation without trying to interpret the sentiment behind them. It doesn't even really matter in the desire to charge aggravated murder, which is the only way in Utah he could receive the death penalty. The acceptable aggravating factors are spelled out in Utah statute. They are numerous and somewhat byzantine, so I won't go into them in this post. But they almost all deal with the circumstances of the crime, not the reasons.

But it's likely that federal charges could be explored. While there's no U.S. Code statute against murder of an ordinary person (i.e., as opposed to an elected official), there are ancillary statutes for things like terrorist acts. For example, federal prosecutors could try to say Robinson was acting on behalf of some group (Antifa, the Democratic party, trans allies, etc.) to commit violence as a means of cowing people.
 
I'm less worried about the Prosecutors and more about the Jury.
I mean, how is anyone supposed to follow this twisted logic, and come away from it thinking that that might be a reason to kill someone for anyone?
 
Nor does explaining the nuance really work as a defense

Also it would be the ultimate â—Šâ—Šâ—Šâ—Šâ—Šâ—Šâ—Šâ—Š from his POV to get the left blamed. And as you say it wouldn't really help his defence case either way.
 

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