Merged Charlie Kirk shot at Utah Valley University event. / Charlie Kirk Shot And Killed

And a republican senator from Utah is telling democrats to just "suck it up"...

From: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...is-utah-kirk-shooting-democrats-b2826384.html
...a Utah Republican senator is calling on the targets of a recurring GOP blame game to take things in stride. Sen. John Curtis told ABC’s This Week Sunday that Democrats would see their efforts to mend fences go a long way by ignoring the clumsy recriminations of Kirk’s allies, who have accused the left of espousing the same violent rhetoric that the likes of Steve Bannon and Alex Jones continue to amplify on their respective media channels.

Perhaps instead of spending is time suggesting democrats should be forgiving of the violent rhetoric aimed at them, he should spend his time going after people on HIS side who are continuing to say the shooting was some soft of "radical leftist" thing.
 
I know that nothing will disturb your fantasy, not even the FBI director:

"His family has collectively told investigators that he subscribed to left-wing ideology."
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They're all lying too! And how do people tell something collectively? And who knows, the family might be so right wing that the shooter's right-wing beliefs seemed left-wing from their vantage point.
 
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Olmstead said:
The rhethoric you are so concerned about has been normalized by mainstream Republican politicians, and by those who have dismissed concerns about such rhethoric to get what they want.

Why wouldn't young people get led down this road when the president himself is doing it? I do hope you weren't one of the people dismissing his worrying rhethoric because of his economic prowess* and the like.

*Yeah, I know.
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I haven't dismissed any worrying rhetoric. The worst I've done is observe and comment that such rhetoric ALSO comes from the left. And Democratic politicians have spent nearly a decade standing at their lecterns TELLING the entire public that Trump and Republicans are fascists who are intent on destroying democracy, and that the people need to rise up and do something about it.

I'm not going to play this back-patting self-congratulatory game where progressives tell themselves and everyone else that they've done nothing at all wrong, they haven't incited or contributed to violence and civil unrest, and it's all the fault of republicans, conservatives, moderates, independents, and anyone else that doesn't hop on board their ideological tank.
 
Brainster said:
I know that nothing will disturb your fantasy, not even the FBI director:


They're all lying too! And how do people tell something collectively? And who knows, the family might be so right wing that the shooter's right-wing beliefs seemed left-wing from their vantage point.
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The family may be wrong. It's possible they don't understand the groyper thing any more than I do. It would be easy to see that through their lens and misunderstand the basis for his behavior.

eta: And that idiot FBI director couldn't persuade me the sun was going to rise in the east tomorrow. Actual evidence I'll follow. Him, just no.
 
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JimOfAllTrades said:
The family may be wrong. It's possible they don't understand the groyper thing any more than I do. It would be easy to see that through their lens and misunderstand the basis for his behavior.

eta: And that idiot FBI director couldn't persuade me the sun was going to rise in the east tomorrow. Actual evidence I'll follow. Him, just no.
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And it's pretty clear
 
Emily's Cat said:
I haven't dismissed any worrying rhetoric. The worst I've done is observe and comment that such rhetoric ALSO comes from the left. And Democratic politicians have spent nearly a decade standing at their lecterns
TELLING the entire public that Trump and Republicans are fascists who are intent on destroying democracy, and that the people need to rise up and do something about it.

I'm not going to play this back-patting self-congratulatory game where progressives tell themselves and everyone else that they've done nothing at all wrong, they haven't incited or contributed to violence and civil unrest, and it's all the fault of republicans, conservatives, moderates, independents, and anyone else that doesn't hop on board their ideological tank.
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OK, but the highlighted is objectively the truth.
 
JimOfAllTrades said:
The family may be wrong. It's possible they don't understand the groyper thing any more than I do. It would be easy to see that through their lens and misunderstand the basis for his behavior.

eta: And that idiot FBI director couldn't persuade me the sun was going to rise in the east tomorrow. Actual evidence I'll follow. Him, just no.
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Probably been said already, but if the friends and family were actual Trump supporters, well... let's face it: they probably don't understand much beyond 'if you don't worship Trump, you are a radical leftist'.
 
A big Trump supporting family that intensively disliked Kirk, thinking he was too hateful.
Not the most reliable judges of politics.
 
Orphia Nay said:
It's pretty bad that Robinson putting anti-fascist messages on his bullets supposedly indicates he's not republican. There we have it, republicans are not anti-fascist, according to republicans.
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Dozens of democrat politicians for several years now have LITERALLY called the republican party fascist, and insisted that it's an existential threat to democracy - do you think that has no part in the increasingly unstable nature of our society?
 
jimbob said:
And it's pretty clear
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Reading about it now it sure seems to be, and I was completely ignorant of all of it until the last day or two. And I've made my living in computers for 40 years, played computer games, spend a fair amount of time in various on-line places, and watch some gaming commentary. And yet I had no idea. I can't imagine how out of that loop your basic middle class mormon family would be,
 
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Emily's Cat said:
Dozens of democrat politicians for several years now have LITERALLY called the republican party fascist, and insisted that it's an existential threat to democracy - do you think that has no part in the increasingly unstable nature of our society?
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Yea at least we are getting the government loyal to Trump not some pesky constitution. Nothing at all fascists about purging those who disagree with the president.

At least we have gotten rid of prohibitions on racial profiling, that is something that I am sure makes you happy.
 
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Pixel42 said:
I think the stats on which extreme actually commits the most political violence are rather more meaningful than polls on which extreme considers it the most theoretically justifiable.
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I'm on the fence on this. Over the past 50 years, more actual violence has been committed by right wing extremists than by left wing extremists. But the sentiment about the acceptability of political violence has been shifting over the past couple of decades, and shifting pretty significantly. Liberals (especially those who consider themselves very liberal) have a higher tolerance for political violence than conservatives do, and young people do as well. Given that those two cohorts have a very strong correlation, we're looking at about 1/4 of young liberals who believe that violence used to achieve political ends is justifiable.

That's something we should all be concerned about.
 
JimOfAllTrades said:
Reading about it now it sure seems to be, and I was completely ignorant of all of it until the last day or two. And I've made my living in computers for 40 years, played computer games, spend a fair amount of time in various on-line places, and watch some gaming commentary. And yet I had no idea. I can't imagine how out of that loop your basic middle class mormon family would be,
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Remember there are Alt-Right people who have Rule 9'd themselves on video and claimed that somehow owned the libs.

There is a lot of repressed and conflicted sexuality in these subcultures. Coupled with what seems like a lot of self-hate.

Ideal grooming material for extremists.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Dozens of democrat politicians for several years now have LITERALLY called the republican party fascist, and insisted that it's an existential threat to democracy - do you think that has no part in the increasingly unstable nature of our society?
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You ever notice how funny it is that every single time someone tries to make this argument, they protest the implications without addressing the facts? Maybe these people should change the facts if they don't like the sound of the truth.

If Republicans don't want the calories, they should stop eating the cake.
 
Emily's Cat said:
I'm on the fence on this. Over the past 50 years, more actual violence has been committed by right wing extremists than by left wing extremists. But the sentiment about the acceptability of political violence has been shifting over the past couple of decades, and shifting pretty significantly. Liberals (especially those who consider themselves very liberal) have a higher tolerance for political violence than conservatives do, and young people do as well. Given that those two cohorts have a very strong correlation, we're looking at about 1/4 of young liberals who believe that violence used to achieve political ends is justifiable.

That's something we should all be concerned about.
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Sure and of course merely trying to violently overthrow the government does not count as an act of political violence now. Love of the coup is universal on the right after all. Just a shame they didn't hand pence over to be killed by the noble non violent conservatives there to hang him.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
And using the term “vermin”.
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:rolleyes: "deplorables"

Trump is a detestably human. That said, both political houses are ◊◊◊◊◊◊ up and fanning the flames of civil unrest and I'm not okay with it. Don't ignore the rhetoric and dehumanization coming from your own party - the only way to calm this down is for ALL of us to speak out against politicians and partisans engaging in narratives that incent violence, AND call out media for amping it up.
 
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