Merged Charlie Kirk shot at Utah Valley University event. / Charlie Kirk Shot And Killed

[dann]

That was what I didn't get. As far as I could tell, he was held up as some sort of anti-intellectual intellectual, but was more former than latter. His schtick was to debate, but not all that honestly, and employed a lot of bald assertions hoping to not get called on them.

I might have been able to call him out on a couple of the logical fallacies, but I would have been lost when it came to the Bible ◊◊◊◊.
The guy debating him in the video is excellent!

 

[johnny karate]

So let me get this straight; this MAGA, groyper-type is in love with a transwoman? Must have been a temporary situation while he waited for his trad-wife to appear.

Utah's Governor, in an interview with NBC News this morning:
"The roommate that we originally talked about, we can confirm that roommate is a boyfriend who is transitioning from male to female..." (Goes on to note that the roommate has been cooperative).

I'm not sure which is more embarrassing for you: That you are accepting at face value the claim of a MAGA Republican on record saying he hoped "it wouldn't be one of us" about Kirk's shooter or that you are assuming anyone who has any kind of relationship with a trans person can't possibly be right wing.

I guess when one is trying to reconcile their political alignment with a party that condones and celebrates violence, the desire to find any way to blame the other side drives them to abandon critical thought out of sheer desperation.

 

[johnny karate]

Indeed, that was back when Gov. Cox was still trying to "other" the shooter instead of admitting he was "one of us." All that sounds pretty performative, especially when you understand that Robinson was identified and apprehended Thursday night by local authorities, but they all had to wait to announce it until Kash Patel could get there to take credit for it.

Again, the idea that even if this whole trans lover thing were true it somehow exonerates Robinson from being right wing is laughably stupid.

Caitlyn Jenner, the most famous trans person in the world, is MAGA.

If there's one thing the right excels at, it's hypocrisy.

 

[Walter]

Where is this place you're talking about?

Smartcooky made a good, rational point. Though differing philosophies, no justification.

Emily's Cat said there was no reason for the EU to care about Kirk. I agree. Now, if it had been Trump?

There were some comments about reaping what you sow, another mundane death, lived 35 years too long, would not mourn him more than if Trump was assassinated, most Americans thought good riddance, glad feelings for his children, racist piece of xxxx. This is exactly how a scientifically minded, reasoning person would think about the killing of a fellow human being.

I should not have implied that glad feelings implied justification. Maybe I should have used a word like deserved instead.

Since we are rational skeptics and moral human beings, there was absolutely no justification for what happened. And we would have said the same if it had been Trump (even though we know he would have fit in perfectly in 1940s Germany).

 

[AmyStrange]

Smartcooky made a good, rational point. Though differing philosophies, no justification.

Emily's Cat said there was no reason for the EU to care about Kirk. I agree. Now, if it had been Trump?

There were some comments about reaping what you sow, another mundane death, lived 35 years too long, would not mourn him more than if Trump was assassinated, most Americans thought good riddance, glad feelings for his children, racist piece of xxxx. This is exactly how a scientifically minded, reasoning person would think about the killing of a fellow human being.

I should not have implied that glad feelings implied justification. Maybe I should have used a word like deserved instead.

Since we are rational skeptics and moral human beings, there was absolutely no justification for what happened. And we would have said the same if it had been Trump (even though we know he would have fit in perfectly in 1940s Germany).

I have irrational, unscientific, non-skeptical thoughts all the time, but the difference between myself and the fat clown and his maga weirdoes is that I critically analyze them and eventually realize that, yeah, most of them were stupid.

The funny ones I keep in a diary just because they're funny.

I LOVE twisted humor.

Now, what was your question again?

 

[dirtywick]

Smartcooky made a good, rational point. Though differing philosophies, no justification.

Emily's Cat said there was no reason for the EU to care about Kirk. I agree. Now, if it had been Trump?

There were some comments about reaping what you sow, another mundane death, lived 35 years too long, would not mourn him more than if Trump was assassinated, most Americans thought good riddance, glad feelings for his children, racist piece of xxxx. This is exactly how a scientifically minded, reasoning person would think about the killing of a fellow human being.

I should not have implied that glad feelings implied justification. Maybe I should have used a word like deserved instead.

Since we are rational skeptics and moral human beings, there was absolutely no justification for what happened. And we would have said the same if it had been Trump (even though we know he would have fit in perfectly in 1940s Germany).

i was the one who wrote you reap what you sow. charlie kirk’s contributions to society specifically as it relates to gun culture are undeniable. and while that may make you uncomfortable, but that’s not a celebration of his death nor a justification for it. deserved would be an equally incorrect description. it’s an indifferent observation of his role in the circumstances that lead to it.

i am indifferent to his death.

 

[stanfr]

Again, the idea that even if this whole trans lover thing were true it somehow exonerates Robinson from being right wing is laughably stupid.

Caitlyn Jenner, the most famous trans person in the world, is MAGA.

If there's one thing the right excels at, it's hypocrisy.

Caitlyn blames the "media" for Kirk's death:

MediaMurderer

 

[AmyStrange]

i was the one who wrote you reap what you sow. charlie kirk’s contributions to society specifically as it relates to gun culture are undeniable. and while that may make you uncomfortable, but that’s not a celebration of his death nor a justification for it. deserved would be an equally incorrect description. it’s an indifferent observation of his role in the circumstances that lead to it.

i am indifferent to his death.

Yup. I mostly think of it as an ironic tragedy.

 

[smartcooky]

Eric Trump: "This is a hit on our country. It's a hit on our movement. It's a hit on Christianity. It's a hit on religion. It's a hit on freedom ... this could have been greatest mistake these people have ever made."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1967231698673799275

Eric can speak!!? I'm shocked

 

[Resume]

Kirk sowed bigotry and division. Doesn't mean he deserved anything, beyond criticism. It means what it means.

 

[JayUtah]

Again, the idea that even if this whole trans lover thing were true it somehow exonerates Robinson from being right wing is laughably stupid.

In Utah culture, any connection to trans life experience is anathema. We're one of those states whose legislature will debate and pass laws that pertain to literally one or two trans people, just to "send a message." We're one of those states where state school board members can doxx female high school athletes with impunity for merely looking slightly masculine (Google: Natalie Cline). Note how quickly the inscriptions on the shell casings were described as trans propaganda even though that was untrue. There is enough irrational fear and hatred built up agains trans people that any connection—no matter how tenuous—obviates any overt right-wing characteristics.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Eric can speak!!? I'm shocked

Let the fact he's talking divisive bollocks reassure you.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Kirk sowed bigotry and division. Doesn't mean he deserved anything, beyond criticism. It means what it means.

If the tree of liberty needs watering, surely it's better that it's someone who's explicitly accepted the price?

 

[AmyStrange]

I have to give Stevie Nicks kudos for this. Just because a jackass killed their father, there's no reason to blame or hate his kids.

Sure, they might not need her help, but to me it's the thought that counts.

Stevie Nicks Exteпds a Haпd of Compassioп to Charlie Kirk’s Family After His Passiпg

 

[smartcooky]

Again, the idea that even if this whole trans lover thing were true it somehow exonerates Robinson from being right wing is laughably stupid.

Caitlyn Jenner, the most famous trans person in the world, is MAGA.

If there's one thing the right excels at, it's hypocrisy.

Indeed! A person's being trans is irrelevant to their political stance. As you point out Jenner is trans and right wing, and that ought to be impossible if we believe the right's assertion that trans = left wing radical. So when the Charlie Kirk shooter comes along and he turns out to be trans AND clearly from a conservative family of Fat Orange Turd supporters, then excuses must be found. They are compelled by the voices in their echo-chambers to justify this by claiming he was radicalized by pinko, blue haired, faggotty academics at his university.
This is what happens when politics goes from bipartisan to tribal. People who once simply disagreed with each other on key principles end up retreating into their echo chambers at opposite ends of the political spectrum and hating each other. That hatred grows and grows, and the rhetoric gets ramped up to such an extent that eventually, some rando nutcase gets triggered and goes postal.
I regard both the left and right extremes as ultimately culpable for this sort of thing... but that is probably my centrist bias coming out.

 

[dirtywick]

I regard both the left and right extremes as ultimately culpable for this sort of thing... but that is probably my centrist bias coming out.

i agree, though the extreme right is outpacing the left by quite a bit at the moment. this may have been a bit of a wake up call for the propagandists, as they found out they can only manipulate and direct that kind of violence so much.

anyway, endorsing and legitimizing the kinds of voices you're describing is something the left is going to have to be careful of, or they'll end up in a similar situation imo

 

[Brainster]

I'm not sure which is more embarrassing for you: That you are accepting at face value the claim of a MAGA Republican on record saying he hoped "it wouldn't be one of us" about Kirk's shooter or that you are assuming anyone who has any kind of relationship with a trans person can't possibly be right wing.

I guess when one is trying to reconcile their political alignment with a party that condones and celebrates violence, the desire to find any way to blame the other side drives them to abandon critical thought out of sheer desperation.

I would say let's see who ends up being embarrassed, but I know you guys will quit this thread the moment it is conclusive that he's a lefty TRA, thus avoiding all the embarrassment.

 

[AmyStrange]

I would say let's see who ends up being embarrassed, but I know you guys will quit this thread the moment it is conclusive that he's a lefty TRA, thus avoiding all the embarrassment.

What exactly would convince you this was true, or are you already assuming such is the case?

 

[dirtywick]

haven't you already been embarassed? you rushed to condemn the left before you knew the facts, now you're just hanging around hoping it turns out to be the left to save some face?

 

[Brainster]

Indeed! A person's being trans is irrelevant to their political stance. As you point out Jenner is trans and right wing, and that ought to be impossible if we believe the right's assertion that trans = left wing radical.

This is silly. Yes, you can find trans-identifying people who are MAGA. According to this website, only 10% of trans adults identify as Republican.