The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

junkshop said:
Vixen, did you watch the second video before you posted it?

Also, no mention of Voronin being a smuggler or having a spacecraft shop. No mention of Voronin at all in any of the videos.
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But Rabe said words so that is good enough! The rest is just....How did she put it?...... Oh yeah, "sweating the small stuff".
 
junkshop said:
Vixen, did you watch the second video before you posted it?

Also, no mention of Voronin being a smuggler or having a spacecraft shop. No mention of Voronin at all in any of the videos.
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I cited a newspaper report citing Rabe verbatim and a poster - who extensively quotes from newspapers himself - claimed it was not good enough and wanted it from the horse's mouth. So now you can see Rabe is a real person.. The newspaper I quoted can easily be contacted for a copy of their archives if it is that important to see the original newspaper article rather than a sourced quote, giving source date and quote. I suspect the demand for more and more proof is someone having 'just having fun'.
 
Vixen said:
I cited a newspaper report citing Rabe verbatim and a poster - who extensively quotes from newspapers himself - claimed it was not good enough and wanted it from the horse's mouth. So now you can see Rabe is a real person.. The newspaper I quoted can easily be contacted for a copy of their archives if it is that important to see the original newspaper article rather than a sourced quote, giving source date and quote. I suspect the demand for more and more proof is someone having 'just having fun'.
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Vixen, did you watch the second video before you posted it? I ask because it is not 'Jutta Rabe in her own words', it is a debunking of her claims of holes being found below the waterline.

Also, there is still no mention of Voronin being a smuggler or having a spacecraft shop. No mention of Voronin at all in any of the videos. Your indignation has not changed the content of the videos.
 
junkshop said:
Vixen, did you watch the second video before you posted it? I ask because it is not 'Jutta Rabe in her own words', it is a debunking of her claims of holes being found below the waterline.

Also, there is still no mention of Voronin being a smuggler or having a spacecraft shop. No mention of Voronin at all in any of the videos. Your indignation has not changed the content of the videos.
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For the avoidance of doubt, here again is the clear citation:


"The reason for the cover-up was classified documents that were allegedly found in the cabin of Captain Avo Piht during the 1994 dives, Rabe claimed in the influential daily Süddeutsche Zeitung on Saturday. Namely, video footage from 1994 shows that the name of the owner, Aleksandr Voronin, is on the side of the diplomatic briefcase that was retrieved from there, but what became of the briefcase is unknown. According to Rabe, Piht was accommodated elsewhere on the night of the shipwreck. A more important person, Voronin, was allegedly traveling in Piht's cabin. According to Rabe, the latter was the head of a Russian-US aerospace company, whose services were also used by the Pentagon. September 24, 2002, 07:14 Postimees"

It is not reasonable to claim you don't understand it or that it is not adequate.
 
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That was one question.

I also asked you if you believed it and you dodged the question. You also dodged the software question.
 
Vixen said:
For the avoidance of doubt, here again is the clear citation:


"The reason for the cover-up was classified documents that were allegedly found in the cabin of Captain Avo Piht during the 1994 dives, Rabe claimed in the influential daily Süddeutsche Zeitung on Saturday. Namely, video footage from 1994 shows that the name of the owner, Aleksandr Voronin, is on the side of the diplomatic briefcase that was retrieved from there, but what became of the briefcase is unknown. According to Rabe, Piht was accommodated elsewhere on the night of the shipwreck. A more important person, Voronin, was allegedly traveling in Piht's cabin. According to Rabe, the latter was the head of a Russian-US aerospace company, whose services were also used by the Pentagon. September 24, 2002, 07:14 Postimees"

It is not reasonable to claim you don't understand it or that it is not adequate.
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And this is why I asked for a citation to Rabe's claims, and not secondhand reportage of her claims. Postimees' claim that Süddeutsche Zeitung reported that:
According to Rabe, the latter [Voronin] was the head of a Russian-US aerospace company, whose services were also used by the Pentagon.
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is not the same as Bollyn's claim that Rabe said that:
Voronin owned a company in Tallinn called “Kosmos Association,” while his brother Valeri owned a similar company in Moscow that traded in weapons and space technology.
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What did Rabe actually claim regarding Voronin? What evidence did she provide in support of her claims?
If you don't know, then just say so.
 
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Vixen said:
I cited a newspaper report citing Rabe verbatim and a poster - who extensively quotes from newspapers himself - claimed it was not good enough and wanted it from the horse's mouth. So now you can see Rabe is a real person.. The newspaper I quoted can easily be contacted for a copy of their archives if it is that important to see the original newspaper article rather than a sourced quote, giving source date and quote. I suspect the demand for more and more proof is someone having 'just having fun'.
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But she says nothing about the claims you have made.
 
Vixen said:
For the avoidance of doubt, here again is the clear citation:


"The reason for the cover-up was classified documents that were allegedly found in the cabin of Captain Avo Piht during the 1994 dives, Rabe claimed in the influential daily Süddeutsche Zeitung on Saturday. Namely, video footage from 1994 shows that the name of the owner, Aleksandr Voronin, is on the side of the diplomatic briefcase that was retrieved from there, but what became of the briefcase is unknown. According to Rabe, Piht was accommodated elsewhere on the night of the shipwreck. A more important person, Voronin, was allegedly traveling in Piht's cabin. According to Rabe, the latter was the head of a Russian-US aerospace company, whose services were also used by the Pentagon. September 24, 2002, 07:14 Postimees"

It is not reasonable to claim you don't understand it or that it is not adequate.
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Aerospace does not mean spaceships.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Vixen, what does aerospace mean? What does software mean?
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What does submarine mean? What does secret mean? What do points and lines mean? What does current affairs mean? What does conspiracy theory mean? What does disappeared mean? What does sonar mean? I mean, like, they're just words... what does anything *really* mean?
 
"When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
 “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
 “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that's all.”
Lewis Carroll

"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality.”
Lewis Carroll

"Alice laughed. 'There's no use trying,' she said. 'One can't believe impossible things.'

I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. There goes the shawl again!”
Lewis Carroll

I have no idea why I have posted these things, but it would appear that I did. I'm confident that this proves something fundamental; perhaps even important, or not.
 
Vixen said:
I cited a newspaper report citing Rabe verbatim and a poster - who extensively quotes from newspapers himself - claimed it was not good enough and wanted it from the horse's mouth.
So now you can see Rabe is a real person.. The newspaper I quoted can easily be contacted for a copy of their archives if it is that important to see the original newspaper article rather than a sourced quote, giving source date and quote. I suspect the demand for more and more proof is someone having 'just having fun'.
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You're trying to justify using Jutta Rabe as a source (or someone named in some source) on the criterion that she is a real person?

Also, she wrote a movie. Which means something.
 
Vixen said:
I have the substantiation in Andi Meister's book, as I said, or did you forget?
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Do you have Andi Meister's book?

ETA: I see now where you announced receiving it; however, I do not see any subsequent discussion of its contents. Have you, in fact, found passages in the book that you can quote that substantiate your claim, or are you guessing as to its contents?
 
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