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...Shall Not Be Infringed

ponderingturtle said:
We just need to learn to celebrate political violence when it happens, to get in the spirit of the second amendment. IT is all about promoting political violence after all.
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Seems like a lot of folks are already celebrating.
 
ahhell said:
Seems like a lot of folks are already celebrating.
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It does seem apropos to mention what Kirk said about the killing of people being the cost that he said you had to accept to have the 2nd amendment.

“I think it’s worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational“

It seems to sum up many American’s views.
 
Darat said:
It does seem apropos to mention what Kirk said about the killing of people being the cost that he said you had to accept to have the 2nd amendment.

“I think it’s worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational“

It seems to sum up many American’s views.
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You think they would hold that opinion if they knew that they would be the people killed?
 
What do the statistics look like when all crime is reported, reported accurately, and reported consistently? The reason I ask is crime is not currently reported accurately in many US states by both city police, and county sheriff's departments for various reasons. And this is a well-known problem in D.C., has been for years, and yet Congress refuses to pass a law mandating and standardizing reporting not matter which party is in control. Yes, some cities and counties report accurate information to the FBI, yet many do not.
 
Axxman300 said:
What do the statistics look like when all crime is reported, reported accurately, and reported consistently? The reason I ask is crime is not currently reported accurately in many US states by both city police, and county sheriff's departments for various reasons. And this is a well-known problem in D.C., has been for years, and yet Congress refuses to pass a law mandating and standardizing reporting not matter which party is in control. Yes, some cities and counties report accurate information to the FBI, yet many do not.
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This has been true since the Feds started collecting it. Probably before.

I'm not sure we can ever get around political manipulation to some degree or another. And by the way, stats are manipulated both underestimating and overestimating crime. You can probably point to single jurisdictions that may be suspect, but because there are so many, it seems as if overall figures probably have been reasonable to point to when looking at national trends.
 
Darat said:
It does seem apropos to mention what Kirk said about the killing of people being the cost that he said you had to accept to have the 2nd amendment.

“I think it’s worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational“

It seems to sum up many American’s views.
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Doesn't seem apropos to me. The right is all, "This is what the left does" he left is all, "Serves him right". No, murder is wrong, in my opinion, especially for political reason. Using a murder to advance a political point is also wrong.

Unrelated to the quoted text. Even if the recorded data is wrong if it is collected in a consistent manner the trend should be correct. Maybe there is more crime than is actually reported (probably there is) there is no good reason to think there is a difference in the way it was collected 0 years ago than now. The data seems to show that crime is dramatically reduced from 30 years ago and slightly higher than 5 years ago. The misunderstanding of actually crime rates is bad for everyone. I don't need to worry about crime, so I don't really need a gun and also my neighbor having a gun is not really a cause of concern for me.
 
The culture thing is something to. I grew up in a place where the house without a gun was weird and also had zero-gun deaths per capita. My wife grew up in a place where no one admitted they had guns and gun deaths were non-zero.

I am odd I suppose, I don't have a gun, I don't feel a need for guns and I don't care if my neighbors do. And yes, gun death is the price of gun ownership much like drowning is the price of pool ownership.
 
Axxman300 said:
What do the statistics look like when all crime is reported, reported accurately, and reported consistently? The reason I ask is crime is not currently reported accurately in many US states by both city police, and county sheriff's departments for various reasons.
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Probably because it shows either those authorities as being raging incompetents, or they are the ones responsible for a large proportion of the crimes.
Axxman300 said:
And this is a well-known problem in D.C., has been for years,...
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Which parts of DC? It's a big city that also encompasses parts of neighbouring states, e.g. Silver Spring in Maryland. Does crime there get reported in DC stats?
Axxman300 said:
and yet Congress refuses to pass a law mandating and standardizing reporting not matter which party is in control. Yes, some cities and counties report accurate information to the FBI, yet many do not.
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Well, at least it would be a good start if there was a Federal Bureau of Statistics for them all to report t...

Oh wait...
 
ahhell said:
Doesn't seem apropos to me. The right is all, "This is what the left does" he left is all, "Serves him right". No, murder is wrong, in my opinion, especially for political reason. Using a murder to advance a political point is also wrong.
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I agree. But so are the acts of a corrupt government. Tell me, would killing Hitler any time from his attempted coup in 1923 to his suicide in April of 1945 have been wrong? Is killing someone who openly spoke of killing liberals wrong? Or do you have to wait until after the liberals have been killed?

Here's the problem that is difficult to address. When is political violence acceptable? I grew up in a time when generally Democrats and Republicans respected the rule of law and each other. This is what happens when the President, his party and his supporters don't. Does it surprise anyone when others stop respecting them?

I see political violence being waged against every day Americans in the form of police and government intrusion. When all of a sudden the 4th 5th 6th, 13th and 14th Amendments are ignored by SCOTUS. Political violence is being waged by ICE, and now the National Guard.
Was it political violence during the 1970s when the National Guard gunned down 4 students in Ohio? Is it political violence when the elderly and infirm are denied health care?
 
the actual government of the us is anointing him like he’s jesus and declaring war on the left, whatever that means to the fascists in charge, and we’re supposed to be more concerned about randos cracking jokes on social media. i remember when the right used to hate virtue signaling. and you don’t even know why the guy shot him.
 
ahhell said:
When I was in SF, 10ish years ago, that was pretty common advice. So, it's a thing. I generally left my car unlocked. Car theft was relatively uncommon compared to rummaging through the car for anything valuable and portable. Of course, I didn't generally leave anything valuable and one of the times my car was broken into, they didn't even take the change.

And honestly, it was advice from blokes in pubs.
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Were these the same blokes who happened to have a spare car radio going cheap?

In the 1990's I had a computer store in town, in the same short street as a bar that opened until 2am. At least once a year someone would would try to break into the store by breaking the plate glass window. The last time they managed to make a hole big enough to pinch a printer from the window display (not without losing a bit of blood in the process). A few days later my assistant was in the bar having lunch when someone offered him a cheap printer...
 
Roger Ramjets said:
The average person is so thick that they can't see the cause and effect even when their noses are rubbed in it. Then again Trump himself is a convicted felon and fraudster who bragged that he could shoot someone in public and get away with it. The inmates are literally running the asylum now.
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Truth. All of that. Every word.
 
ahhell said:
Doesn't seem apropos to me. The right is all, "This is what the left does" he left is all, "Serves him right". No, murder is wrong, in my opinion, especially for political reason. Using a murder to advance a political point is also wrong.
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How does it not seem appropriate for this thread? Kirk explained that some people being killed with guns is the inevitable cost of your 2nd amendment, it goes to the heart of the "shall not be infringed". His murder is a graphic example of the cost of his beliefs.
 
ahhell said:
The culture thing is something to. I grew up in a place where the house without a gun was weird and also had zero-gun deaths per capita. My wife grew up in a place where no one admitted they had guns and gun deaths were non-zero.

I am odd I suppose, I don't have a gun, I don't feel a need for guns and I don't care if my neighbors do. And yes, gun death is the price of gun ownership much like drowning is the price of pool ownership.
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No, a pool is not designed to drown someone, a gun is designed to kill or severely harm. For the two to be analogous you would need to have pools that are designed to kill or harm and outside of James Bond films I don't think such pools exist.
 
Darat said:
No, a pool is not designed to drown someone, a gun is designed to kill or severely harm. For the two to be analogous you would need to have pools that are designed to kill or harm and outside of James Bond films I don't think such pools exist.
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This, of course, is the downfall of all arguments comparing guns to pools, or to fire extinguishers, or any of the other many comparisons I've seen.

And nobody give me the old "guns aren't designed to kill people, they're designed to propel small pieces of metal very fast". Shut up. Guns were invented as weapons of war. Period.
 
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