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Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

Truth bomb:

Access to porn remains more important than ensuring children are kept safe on the internet.
 
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You don't think that the average age of seeing porn is 13? You don't think that 25% of a class of 8 or 9 year olds would have seen porn? Cued:

 
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Darat said:
None of which supports your premise.
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I asked for evidence, not a restatement of your assertion. Governments are legally required to keep children safe from this content when they go on the internet. That isn't happening.
 
Poem said:
I asked for evidence, not a restatement of your assertion. Governments are legally required to keep children safe from this content when they go on the internet. That isn't happening.
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You really don't understand how to form logical arguments?
 
Darat said:
You really don't understand how to form logical arguments?
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Are children being kept safe from porn when they go online? Does the evidence suggest just a tiny minority of kids are seeing it - such that we don't need to be concerned...we've fulfilled our obligation under the UNCRC?
 
Poem said:
Of course? Really? I missed you saying otherwise?
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Of course you did. Just because I bang on repeatedly about one particular aspect of a subject doesn't mean I'm oblivious to others. I don't share everything that goes through my head. That would take too long to type.

Poem said:
A seismic change in societal mores - along the lines of actually fulfilling what we have all (nearly all...USA you know who you are) legally pledged to under the UNCRC.
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Uh-huh. So you just want to change the entire world. Good luck with that.

Poem said:
And I have agreed that education is important...even if porn were banned.

Who wants less education?
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You do. Even if you don't say it outright, your proposal to ban porn would put it out of the reach of education. Teaching children what it is and how it works would be illegal under your regime.

Poem said:
Objectify men and women in porn (particularly women), allow violent, abusive and barely legal content etc and allow unverified uploads - and watch society change....radically.
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That has been going on literally forever, and we've been watching society change. It hasn't changed... radically (whatever that even means). It has changed, but porn has not been a huge influence on it. To be specific:
  1. Women have been objectified literally since paleolithic times.
  2. Violent and abusive porn is performance, like violence and abuse in movies in general, and when it isn't, it's already illegal.
  3. Barely legal is another term for perfectly legal.
Furthermore, it has been demonstrated repeatedly that people can compartmentalise movies from reality. Watching violent movies or playing violent roleplaying games does not make people more violent. In fact, there is a slight negative correlation.

Violent Movies and Severe Acts of Violence: Sensationalism versus Science
Abstract: Violent media has often been blamed for severe violent acts. Following recent findings that violence in movies has increased substantially over the last few decades, this research examined whether such increases were related to trends in severe acts of violence. Annual rates of movie violence and gun violence in movies were compared to homicide and aggravated assault rates between the years of 1960 and 2012. Time series analyses found that violent films were negatively, although nonsignificantly, related to homicides and aggravated assaults. These nonsignificant negative relations remained present even after controlling for various extraneous variables. Results suggest that caution is warranted when generalizing violent media research, conducted primarily in laboratories and via questionnaires, to societal trends in violent behavior.
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Does media violence predict societal violence? It depends on what you look at and when.
Abstract: This article presents 2 studies of the association of media violence rates with societal violence rates. In the first study, movie violence and homicide rates are examined across the 20th century and into the 21st (1920–2005). Throughout the mid‐20th century small‐to‐moderate correlational relationships can be observed between movie violence and homicide rates in the United States. This trend reversed in the early and latter 20th century, with movie violence rates inversely related to homicide rates. In the second study, videogame violence consumption is examined against youth violence rates in the previous 2 decades. Videogame consumption is associated with a decline in youth violence rates. Results suggest that societal consumption of media violence is not predictive of increased societal violence rates.
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Poem said:
Children around the world are watching porn...on the internet. They can accidentally stumble upon it. That happens on X a lot. Musk is THE worst offender.

See the repeatedly cited reports from the UK's Children's Commissioner.
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Who as I have said is a priori moralistically biased against porn due to her Catholic faith and values, and who bases her opinions on the self-reports of children who are psychologically motivated by shame and guilt to lie about their intentions.

You can't accidentally stumble across porn*. Even on X formerly known as Twitter I had to actually go looking for it, using specific search terms. I have been on Twitter since 2008, when one posted by sending an SMS message from your phone to a particular number. In all that time I have never - never once - accidentally stumbled across porn. You are being lied to. And yes, you are being lied to by the UK Commissioner, whose word you apparently take as gospel.

Poem said:
You don't think that the average age of seeing porn is 13? You don't think that 25% of a class of 8 or 9 year olds would have seen porn?
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I do not. And if it happens to be the case that this is true then I don't think it would be a problem as long as they were educated sufficiently to approach the subject with objectivity and maturity. You want to make that education illegal.

One more thing. We aren't talking about eight- or nine-year olds. An eight-year old has no real understanding or interest in pornographic content because kids only start getting horny in their teens. Generally around age thirteen or fourteen, though the exact age will vary. That is the age at which sex education should be mandatory.

*I mean I guess it's not impossible, but it's certainly not as common as is being suggested.
 
I was just thinking of my own personal exposure to porn - certainly had seen the likes of Playboy and Mayfair magazines by 13. Porn movies would have to wait a few years after that simply because of availability, my teenage years coincided with the explosion of home video recorders which is when porn videos obviously came into being.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Darat... you know that the vast majority of porn on the internet is not professionally produced, don't you?
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Darat said:
No I don't. Is it?
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Spent a little time this morning looking into this and... it's complicated - the real world does insist on being messy - I'm going to carry on my little research project. But it really isn't clearcut.

However I do think Emily's Cat's ideas have merit and could be workable.
 
Darat said:
However I do think Emily's Cat's ideas have merit and could be workable.
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No plan that relies on scrubbing the entire internet of content will ever be workable, nor will it be satisfied with any given class of objectionable content. There will always be something more to protect the children from, because it's not really about the children at all, but the people doing the protection.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
No plan that relies on scrubbing the entire internet of content will ever be workable, nor will it be satisfied with any given class of objectionable content. There will always be something more to protect the children from, because it's not really about the children at all, but the people doing the protection.
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It's Poem that wants to scrub the internet and the entire world of porn. I'm all for adults having access to porn.
 
Emily's Cat said:
As I pointed out to Darat, the vast majority of on-line porn is NOT professionally produced, has no regulations, etc. And there's no way to verify that it's consensual at all.

Thus... I propose we ban all user-uploaded content, and only allow professionally licensed and regulated content.
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Enh. If we're going to start banning stuff that harms society and appears to be neither professional nor consensual, I'd rather start with prank and confrontation content. One Johnny Somali is worth a thousand Only Fans.
 
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