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Trump's promised ICE raids have begun

Safe-Keeper said:
I'm not an expert in any way, but I fear an outright civil war less than I fear escalating violence. From ICE and other government agents, gravy seal militias and just random hateful citizens, and from resistance fighters and increasingly pissed off liberals, and, eventually, probably terrorists on both sides of the aisle. You just need to look at the last century and the past decades to know how much violence and cruelty the US state is capable of.
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Seems to me a number of Eurpean goverments in the last century were even worse.
And that what pissed me off about some Euros, they feel so goddamn superior, forgetting their own history.Any state is capable of violence and cruelty, given the last circumstance.
Come to think of it, a lot of violence and cruelty has been done in the name of Socialism..........
As for violence in the US. I think a civil war is prefrable to giving in to tyranny. That will upset a lot of Pacifists, I know but then I have a low opinion of Pacifism anyway. As someone wrote, the problem with Pacifism is it gives power to the worst elements of humanity.
 
I've heard for years that it is almost impossible to sue the federal government, but I don't know the details of why. Dreams of big payouts for false arrest may be unrealistic or impossible. Of course, even if litigation were possible and a plaintiff won a judgment the administration would just ignore it.

Still waiting to see if there is a limit to the nation's appetite for cruelty. With the Hyundai plant raid, I'm wondering why Trump is trying to punish South Korea. The more nationalities they go after, the more chance for international repercussions, and maybe even a chance to pry Republican lips off Trump's anus. Trump has loved antagonizing Mexico for a long time and much of the nation cheers, but for the past few decades Asians have largely been seen as a "good minority" even by many political conservatives.

I tend not to make predictions ... unintended consequences are (by definition?) a surprise. My hunch, almost certainly worthless, is that if Trump is ever embroiled in a bipartisan scandal it will be over something relatively small. The big stuff doesn't seem to hurt him.
 
dudalb said:
Seems to me a number of Eurpean goverments in the last century were even worse.
And that what pissed me off about some Euros, they feel so goddamn superior,forgetting their own history.Any state is capable of violence and cruelty, given the last circumstance.
Come to think of it, a lot of violence and cruelty has been done in the name of Socialism..........
As for violence in the US. I think a civil war is prefrable to giving in to tyranny. That will upset a lot of Pacifists, I know but then I have a low opinion of Pacifism anyway. As someone wrote, the problem with Pacifism is it gives power to the worst elements of humanity.
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Perhaps it is because they remember their own history they are so concerned. It is certainly true that in the last century every country was occupied by Nazi Germany or by the USSR or was communist excepting Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, UK, Ireland, Spain and Portugal. Spain was of course a fascist dictatorship. Portugal was a dictatorship, followed by a military coup for most of the century. Greece had a military dictatorship supported by the US as part of its policy of avoiding left wing democracies and favouring right wing military dictatorships (see also Iran).

You could argue that the only European countries that were democracies throughout the last century were Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, Iceland, UK and Ireland (Ireland only becoming independent of the UK during the last century). Iceland only became independent following Danish occupation by Germany and its own occupation by the allies.
 
Planigale said:
You could argue that the only European countries that were democracies throughout the last century were Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, Iceland, UK and Ireland (Ireland only becoming independent of the UK during the last century). Iceland only became independent following Danish occupation by Germany and its own occupation by the allies.
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Any particular reason why Norway and Denmark were not democracies throughout the last century? Were they any different from Sweden?
(I can find a number of reasons myself, but that very much depends on the definition of a democracy)
 
Finland was occupied by Germany. The troops were on the Russian border, but certainly Nazi soldiers were everywhere. As "ally" Finland never sent out any significant number of Jews.
 
Planigale said:
Perhaps it is because they remember their own history they are so concerned.
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Yeah, imagine. Unfortunately we live in the Age of the Whataboutism, so lessons from the past should be rebranded as gotchas.

"lololol you say I should quit smoking before I get lung cancer but you got lung cancer from smoking 10 years ago!"
 
Dabop said:
Not an either/or situation...
Increasing violence- almost a certainty - the US already has unidentified people roaming the streets abducting people without even a semblance of adhering to the legal rights they are supposed to have there... they are supposed to be ICE- but who can actually tell- with no ID or anything visible, and no requirement for them to ID themselves, it could just as easily be any random group of rightwing racists looking to 'disappear' anyone they don't like...
:jaw-dropp
And with having trump sending in out of state military units already into 'blue states' (the National Guard is a military force to all intents and purposes) and wanting to use actual military units as well into 'those states' he has decreed enemies- and blue states already saying hell no and forming resistance (and remember they have their own NG units in most cases many of those locals who have certainly no love of the right wing and their jackbooted/red hatted intruders in their own state) how long before there is indeed 'armed confrontations' between actual military style forces in the streets???

Hmmm???

They block ICE with municipal vehicles, ICE retaliates by firing upon those blockading them (and seriously how many here think ICE 'agents' WOULDN'T fire on such a blockade???) The local cops and Nat Guard respond in kind firing on ICE- and well- its all goes downhill from there....

Tell me that is SOOO unlikely....
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Protesters trying to block military units trying to enter a town? Reminds me of something.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
Protesters trying to block military units trying to enter a town? Reminds me of something.
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A government that does as it pleases, abducting and 'disappearing' people with no legal rights or representation and with the courts stacked with their 'people' and a mere rubber stamp- indeed the similarities are chilling...

An older tragedy also springs to mind...
They too wrapped themselves in religious trappings but had not a shred of human decency....

trump was a big fan of their leader....
 
Mexican Independence Day is the sixteenth of this month. Usually there are plenty of vehicles festooned with Mexican Flags and body wraps. I would not recommend that this year, considering what Trump has promised for Chicago.
 
Resume said:
Mexican Independence Day is the sixteenth of this month. Usually there are plenty of vehicles festooned with Mexican Flags and body wraps. I would not recommend that this year, considering what Trump has promised for Chicago.
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I read that as booby traps and thought that might actually be a good idea for marauding trumpkins and ICE thugs.
 
Resume said:
Mexican Independence Day is the sixteenth of this month. Usually there are plenty of vehicles festooned with Mexican Flags and body wraps. I would not recommend that this year, considering what Trump has promised for Chicago.
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Maybe not if you look Latino or Indio; could be trouble in that.
But if you look Anglo or, better yet, Nordic, a Mexican-themed
car with flags and slogans and salsa blasting (alternating with
the Mexican anthem) would be a great way to mess with the
IceStapo's rather small heads. Load the back seat with riders
who can talk lingo, .e.g., Finnish or Arapahoe or Pig Latin and tell them
never to shut up. Everybody goes armed with a US passport, natch, but
can't seem to find it upon less than twelve shouted demands.

A discretely following camera car would be a nice touch too. Of course,
everyone must notify friends/family/lawyers/media about your Dia de Solidad,
just in case you get disappeared.

Normally, I would now add, "Take some muscle," but that doesn't promote
civil impudence, it just plays into the brownshirts' hands.
 
sackett said:
Maybe not if you look Latino or Indio; could be trouble in that.
But if you look Anglo or, better yet, Nordic, a Mexican-themed
car with flags and slogans and salsa blasting (alternating with
the Mexican anthem) would be a great way to mess with the
IceStapo's rather small heads. Load the back seat with riders
who can talk lingo, .e.g., Finnish or Arapahoe or Pig Latin and tell them
never to shut up. Everybody goes armed with a US passport, natch, but can't seem to find it upon less than twelve shouted demands.
A discretely following camera car would be a nice touch too. Of course,
everyone must notify friends/family/lawyers/media about your Dia de Solidad,
just in case you get disappeared.

Normally, I would now add, "Take some muscle," but that doesn't promote
civil impudence, it just plays into the brownshirts' hands.
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See post above this one. Your idea has merit but as to the highlighted, these ice jagoffs are gonna give you exactly one (if that) shot to identify before snatching you up. These guys just love a job in which their psycopathy is not just allowed, but encouraged.
 
Resume said:
See post above this one. Your idea has merit but as to the highlighted, these ice jagoffs are gonna give you exactly one (if that) shot to identify before snatching you up. These guys just love a job in which their psycopathy is not just allowed, but encouraged.
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And that's what you prepare for. This is not a prank, it's a political deed.
The best outcome is to be detained by these goons. I know very well
that it takes dedication, it takes sand, to face organized lawbreakers.
I advised anybody who aims to take this courageous and laudible action
to protect themselves, legally and sanely.

And be prepared for bad stuff to happen. It may not, but this is the
Day of the Feral Swine.
 
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