• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Sustainable Fuels

catsmate said:
Look if we eliminated Ryanair et al we'd improve the planet greatly.
Click to expand...
I think that as well but Ryanair had over 200 million passenger journeys in the last 12 months so the demand is there.

Heck, this year Mrs Don and I flew to Frankfurt in January (so she could give up her US citizenship), Denver in May (for our nephew's wedding) and are due to go to Rhodes in September. We're as guilty as hell.

Then again we don't have children.
 
catsmate said:
I have. And I have the knowledge and expertise to understand the science and engineering.
My job involves analysis of new technology.
Click to expand...
Well that's great and all, but you still haven't answered the question, which was what technological breakthroughs have made the book irrelevant, misleading or wrong?
 
catsmate said:
The simple solution is to fly less.
Click to expand...

The Don said:
That would require people to compromise their lifestyle - anathema to many, especially those on the right.
Click to expand...
Exactly Don. And many on the Christian right believe in the rapture and none of this earthly stuff matters.

Telling people to do without is a fools errand. They might accept minor inconveniences, but the ask is seldom universal which makes it harder.
 
The Don said:
That would require people to compromise their lifestyle - anathema to many, especially those on the right.
Click to expand...
Meh, this is pretty silly in the context of air travel. Who travels more by plane? Lefties or righties? I know, it's all the republicans vacationing in Europe.

Also to think its actually believing in the rapture makes you less willing to sacrifice your quality of life to save the planet. People do not want to suffer, even inconvenience and asking them to do so will just make them look for justification as to why they don't need to. If anything, the left is just more hypocritical about climate change than the right.

We can wring our hands about it all we want and blame the bad guys for being human but in the end, Acbytesla is correct. Folks aren't going to give up air travel unless they are forced to. Biofuels will not replace fossil fuels unless they are cost competitive or fossil fuels are outright banned. I know folks that would love that to happen, they would say it's for environmental reasons but in reality, it's because they miss the days flying was more civilized and only the right kind of people could afford it.
 
How hard is it to generate methane from organic material was revealed to me on my own patio.

I had a bucket that was filling with old potting soil and organic wastes swept off the upper patios. It was 1/3 full. Rain started and it started filling with water.

I now have a mini swamp in a bucket bubbling gas and creating the best future potting soil I will ever have. It wasn't even intentional.
Imagine if someone wanted to do it on an industrial scale using better base materials.
Supply would outstrip demand quite easily in a city.
It's sustainable if not pollution free.
 
ahhell said:
Meh, this is pretty silly in the context of air travel. Who travels more by plane? Lefties or righties? I know, it's all the republicans vacationing in Europe.

Also to think its actually believing in the rapture makes you less willing to sacrifice your quality of life to save the planet. People do not want to suffer, even inconvenience and asking them to do so will just make them look for justification as to why they don't need to. If anything, the left is just more hypocritical about climate change than the right.

We can wring our hands about it all we want and blame the bad guys for being human but in the end, Acbytesla is correct. Folks aren't going to give up air travel unless they are forced to. Biofuels will not replace fossil fuels unless they are cost competitive or fossil fuels are outright banned. I know folks that would love that to happen, they would say it's for environmental reasons but in reality, it's because they miss the days flying was more civilized and only the right kind of people could afford it.
Click to expand...
There may come a time when fossil fuels are totally banned. But I doubt it. I can see it cut by 90% sometime in the future.
Orphia Nay said:
Article on India's use of 20% ethanol blended petrol (E20) and it's successes and drawbacks.

www.bbc.com

E20: India's biofuel drive is saving billions but also sparking worries

Critics say many vehicles in India are not biofuel-compliant, and its use could put engines at risk. The government denies this.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
Click to expand...
Ethanol is a mistake. At least in the US. It is expensive and is a poor use for farmland. Grow food. Not fuel. It causes problems for engines. It causes future problems for farmers.
 
Last edited:
Our car can use E15 without reducing mileage or power. It's a Nissan March, nothing special. Not recommended for a heavier mix.
My mower says E10, no E15 and it's a sparkly new 2025 model. Damage will be possible. Straight gas gives best power.

When more cars and other ICE machines are made for flex fuel capabilities then change the fuel. Not before.

The change to more battery powered stuff will take time for consumers to catch up. Stuff is expensive. We aren't going to be getting rid of stuff that works and is paid for.

Battery tech needs to catch up in a lot of areas too. Make it affordable to many. Legislate those requirements first.
 
8enotto said:
Our car can use E15 without reducing mileage or power. It's a Nissan March, nothing special. Not recommended for a heavier mix.
My mower says E10, no E15 and it's a sparkly new 2025 model. Damage will be possible. Straight gas gives best power.

When more cars and other ICE machines are made for flex fuel capabilities then change the fuel. Not before.

The change to more battery powered stuff will take time for consumers to catch up. Stuff is expensive. We aren't going to be getting rid of stuff that works and is paid for.

Battery tech needs to catch up in a lot of areas too. Make it affordable to many. Legislate those requirements first.
Click to expand...
In the US, most stations only offer E10 or E15. And it's been that way for 30+ years. But the blend causes all kinds of problems over time. To begin with ethanol is hygroscopic. It absorbs water out of the air. It oxidizes in the fuel system. IE: It causes rust. You don't want old gas in any car or a mower or other gas engine device. Especially if it contains ethanol.
 
acbytesla said:
There may come a time when fossil fuels are totally banned. But I doubt it. I can see it cut by 90% sometime in the future.
Ethanol is a mistake. At least in the US. It is expensive and is a poor use for farmland. Grow food. Not fuel. It causes problems for engines. It causes future problems for farmers.
Click to expand...
Unless you are a corn farmer. Ethanol in the US is just a farm subsidy, nothing to do climate change or energy independence or what ever other nonsense they claim.
 
ahhell said:
Unless you are a corn farmer. Ethanol in the US is just a farm subsidy, nothing to do climate change or energy independence or what ever other nonsense they claim.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, that's true. And in my opinion. It has created an economic bomb that eventually will go off. Farmers grow crops that make money. And each crop requires specialized equipment for planting, growing, harvesting, storage and distribution. At some point in the future, the bottom willfully out of the ethanol corn market. It will cause writing off the investment in that equipment.
 
theprestige said:
The real path to sustainable fuels is just to do less stuff. A lot less stuff. A lot less humans is also helpful in this regard.
Click to expand...
So let's kill the poor people. We don't need them now that we have robots, drones and AI.
 
acbytesla said:
So let's kill the poor people. We don't need them now that we have robots, drones and AI.
Click to expand...
That's pretty much where all hardcore conservationist logic leads. First comes the realization that there's just too many people on the planet, for the kind of sustainable energy consumption being chased. Then comes the realization that if it really did come down to that, it's not the 1% that will have to make the sacrifice. Everyone says they don't want that outcome, but they don't really have a credible alternative.
 
theprestige said:
That's pretty much where all hardcore conservationist logic leads. First comes the realization that there's just too many people on the planet, for the kind of sustainable energy consumption being chased. Then comes the realization that if it really did come down to that, it's not the 1% that will have to make the sacrifice. Everyone says they don't want that outcome, but they don't really have a credible alternative.
Click to expand...
There's an extreme everywhere. But what I see is the wealthy viewing the masses as the maddening crowd that is no longer required. Throughout history they saw these people as slaves or the equivalent to produce their conveniences. But far less people are needed for them. As Jean Paul Sartre says, "hell is other people." There is only one solution, kill off the "other people." Leave me alone on my mega-yacht to play.

Aspen, Cannes, are Monaco etc are too crowded, We must do something about it.

We see this happened in Russia and now happening here. ICE is taking care of the Immigrants and the National Guard is taking care of the poor. And the FBI is being transformed into the FSB.
 
acbytesla said:
There's an extreme everywhere. But what I see is the wealthy viewing the masses as the maddening crowd that is no longer required. Throughout history they saw these people as slaves or the equivalent to produce their conveniences. But far less people are needed for them. As Jean Paul Sartre says, "hell is other people." There is only one solution, kill off the "other people." Leave me alone on my mega-yacht to play.

Aspen, Cannes, are Monaco etc are too crowded, We must do something about it.

We see this happened in Russia and now happening here. ICE is taking care of the Immigrants and the National Guard is taking care of the poor. And the FBI is being transformed into the FSB.
Click to expand...
This seems entirely orthogonal to any discussion about sustainable fuels.
 
theprestige said:
This seems entirely orthogonal to any discussion about sustainable fuels.
Click to expand...
I'm not exactly sure what geometry has to do with it. But we're talking about sustainable fuels replacing fossil fuels to save the environment. We also have been discussing reducing air traffic. Catsmate mentioned eliminating Ryanair Europe's most popular budget airline. In other words, reducing the travel of the masses.

Isn't simply eliminating the masses the next step?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom