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Psychics and Missing People

cpolk, the drawback I see with that, is the way psychics then go on to claim success or at least contribution to the case, no matter what really happened - e.g. they'll add to their web site "Worked closely with Bedrock P.D. in missing Pebbles case," when not one of the cops ever passed word one with them.
You would have to add a clause of "absolutely no disclosure to the press" or something like that. You know, maybe that would be the fastest way to get rid of them? Only let them on the case if they sign a contract stating they won't say anything to any media whatsoever?
 
Excellent post soliciting input from victims of psychics claiming to find missing people, Kelly.

One misspelling:


KellyJ said:
Advantage takers, such as psychics and other users of proported paranormal phenomena
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I believe you mean "purported".

Also, be aware that some people are going to respond to your solicitation claiming success with psychics. How do you plan on handling that? Are you not going to include their remarks in your future reports?

You also need to be aware that some respondees may claim their missing loved one was found by a psychic. Beware of frauds. These may be shills for the very psychics you are fighting. Make sure you ask for bona fide evidence. News report, etc. (ETA: Make sure they are who they say they are. Name, address, phone number, name of investigating officer. You get the idea.)

I admire your courage and the amount of energy you are putting into this effort. You must love your son very, very much.
 
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Very nice, KellyJ. We'll all be here to help you along the way. Keep us updated on your efforts.
 
ysabella said:
cpolk, the drawback I see with that, is the way psychics then go on to claim success or at least contribution to the case, no matter what really happened - e.g. they'll add to their web site "Worked closely with Bedrock P.D. in missing Pebbles case," when not one of the cops ever passed word one with them.
You would have to add a clause of "absolutely no disclosure to the press" or something like that. You know, maybe that would be the fastest way to get rid of them? Only let them on the case if they sign a contract stating they won't say anything to any media whatsoever?
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Trust me, the fastest way to get rid of them is to say that they won't get paid until results are confirmed.

A contract alone would prevent them from libel or slander, such as claiming undue credit. You will have a clear definition of what they were to provide and whether or not they provided it. If they do provide it, let them shout it from the hilltops. If they don't, threatening legal action will remove it from their website.

That is the mistake that police departments make. They don't enforce signing contracts because they believe the nonsense about "you must forgo common sense", and as a result have no legal standing, because they cannot prove that the psychics did not provide the results they claimed that they would.

For instance, without a contract detailing what type of information counts as viable information, a psychic could say, "I see a body of water" on a case involving a person who went missing on a fishing trip, and they would legally have the right to proclaim that they provided information.

Without a contract, that is paramount to having to pay an archetitect's full fee for building a house because he gave you the number of a guy who sells lumber cheap, then having the archiect proclaim that he took a part in designing your building. With a contract, you can prove what was supposed to be done, and through record-keeping you can prove what was actually done.

On that note, have the "psychics" provide everything in writing and/or on tape.

Or just skip the psychic connection altogether. This is a lot of work on your part, and you should only do it to placate the family members who feel that you are not using all the resources available to you. A statement regarding psychics, as you had posted earlier, is the route I would take.
 
If one of my children went missing and a psychic contacted me, I'd invite them over. And have the press there when they arrived. Then make a speech about what a piece of crap lowlife bloodsucking vampire the psychic is for trying to victimize me in the worst period of my life. "Snap a photo of this scumbag, folks, for your readers/viewers!"

I doubt I'd get any more calls from psychics or the journalists who shill for them.
 
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cabby said:
I wondered if anyone saw the final of the UK TV program that has been discussed here recently in another thread - 'Britain's Psychic Challenge'? It began with 8 'psychics' who were wittled down to 3 in the final, and one was announced the winner.
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If they were really psychic, why would the losing ones participate? I mean, if they already knew they were going to lose before they started… ;)
 
Mariah said:
This is very well written, Kelly. This is a small thing, but I'd suggest spelling out LE and NCMEC in addition to the letters. It ought to have been obvious to me, but I had to stop and think of what they meant.

I think I might try to contact Susan Blackmore.
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Thanks, Mariah. I should have spelled those out for this audience. The families know what LE and NCMEC is, but others outside the circle would not.

LE=Law Enforcement
NCMEC=National Center for Missing and Exploited Children

Thanks for contacting Susan!
 
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cpolk said:
Trust me, the fastest way to get rid of them is to say that they won't get paid until results are confirmed.

A contract alone would prevent them from libel or slander, such as claiming undue credit. You will have a clear definition of what they were to provide and whether or not they provided it. If they do provide it, let them shout it from the hilltops. If they don't, threatening legal action will remove it from their website.

That is the mistake that police departments make. They don't enforce signing contracts because they believe the nonsense about "you must forgo common sense", and as a result have no legal standing, because they cannot prove that the psychics did not provide the results they claimed that they would.

For instance, without a contract detailing what type of information counts as viable information, a psychic could say, "I see a body of water" on a case involving a person who went missing on a fishing trip, and they would legally have the right to proclaim that they provided information.

Without a contract, that is paramount to having to pay an archetitect's full fee for building a house because he gave you the number of a guy who sells lumber cheap, then having the archiect proclaim that he took a part in designing your building. With a contract, you can prove what was supposed to be done, and through record-keeping you can prove what was actually done.

On that note, have the "psychics" provide everything in writing and/or on tape.

Or just skip the psychic connection altogether. This is a lot of work on your part, and you should only do it to placate the family members who feel that you are not using all the resources available to you. A statement regarding psychics, as you had posted earlier, is the route I would take.
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In regards to this whole issue about offering money to psychics if they can prove themselves:

Our mission is to help the families. We don't want to become a missing person/psychic busting entity. If we offered something like that, they'd be coming out of the woodwork to try for the money, and we'd be spending our days and nights determining if anyone gave adequate proof rather than helping the families.

It's an interesting concept, but in a sense, that's what the Million Dollar Challenge is, correct?

My reason behind what I am doing is to show these victims the truth behind the mystique and to help them feel justified in the decision not to go down this futile and painful road.

I want to alleviate their guilt and keep them from giving into the desperation/helplessness that comes with the territory.

If we bust some of these losers while doing this, that's icing on the cake.
 
Luke T. said:
Excellent post soliciting input from victims of psychics claiming to find missing people, Kelly.

One misspelling:

I believe you mean "purported".

Also, be aware that some people are going to respond to your solicitation claiming success with psychics. How do you plan on handling that? Are you not going to include their remarks in your future reports?

You also need to be aware that some respondees may claim their missing loved one was found by a psychic. Beware of frauds. These may be shills for the very psychics you are fighting. Make sure you ask for bona fide evidence. News report, etc. (ETA: Make sure they are who they say they are. Name, address, phone number, name of investigating officer. You get the idea.)

I admire your courage and the amount of energy you are putting into this effort. You must love your son very, very much.
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Thanks, Luke. I'll correct that word. I knew it didn't look right, but the words were flowing, so I ignored it.

The issues with attracting even more vermin needs to be dicussed. In my writings, I will make it clear that we are not going to become an agency that investigates psychic's claims. I can imagine it getting very out of hand. I will nip it in the bud by letting them know that their emails will be deleted. At the same time, I don't want to give the appearance of not being open to the possibility. This may keep fence sitters from becoming defensive towards us. That may buy time to dazzle them with logic and facts.

Here's my idea on the latter: I will encourage those persons to come here and post their claims. That is, if the members here are ok with me referring them here.

I would say something such as:

"We understand that many people believe that psychics are effective in solving crimes and finding missing people. Please keep in mind that the goal of this series is to help families understand techniques used by persons making these claims and make better decisions about the use of psychics.

Project Jason and its volunteers cannot act as a clearinghouse for persons claiming success in using paranormal means to locate missing persons. We will be unable to respond to emails or other correspondence sent to us from persons making these claims or persons offering information about or referrals to psychics.

We instead invite those persons to present their evidence to the members of the James Randi Education Foundation. They have a forum available for you to discuss your claims. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7 "

Would that be acceptable to the members and the foundation?
 
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BTW, thanks to all for the encouragement and assistance.

Here's another idea that came to me that would be not only helpful to me timewise, but also would lend to the air of authority in presenting this.

Would members who have previous writing/presenting experience like to be a guest writer in the series and present various debunking scenarios?

For example, one person would take the category of medium and present the definition and then give an example of the methods used. Some of the example dialogs I've seen would be very effective, especially when the scripts are written with a missing person's case in mind.

Thoughts? Volunteers?

I can finally post links! Here's my standard signature:

Kelly Jolkowski, Mother of Missing Jason Jolkowski
President and Founder,
Project Jason
http://www.projectjason.org
Read our Voice for the Missing Blog
http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/
 
RichardR said:
This blog has a whole series of posts debunking Allison Dubois. Don't know if that is the sort of thing you were looking for.
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Kelly,

Please allow me to add my welcome to the other voices speaking up. You are a truly brave and strong woman. On behalf of those less versed in critical thinking than we, I thank you.

Just one note regarding the blog RichardR provided a link to. Be aware that twopercentco.com do not pull any punches, and do not censor themselves. You might want to warn anyone you refer to their site that they will likely encounter off-colour language.
 
Hello Gr8wight....love the hat. Thanks for the warm welcome.

I don't feel brave, really. Perhaps the roots of this are found in my rebellious teenage years. I always considered myself to be a "Rebel with a Cause". :cool: As an adult, I now get to act this out and get away with it. At least I'm not breaking any laws!

I am always reminded, however, of the reason I am in this position, in which there is no humor. I do consider it a privlege to be in a position of having an effect on so many lives. It is one I do not take lightly.

I noticed the language at twopercent. If I choose to use that link in the series, I will post a warning. Thanks for being sensitive to the needs of others.

Kelly
 
happening right here locally..............

Hi kellyJ!

I don't post messages here as often as many others, but let me extend a welcome to the forums. I also express my deepest sympathy concerning your missing son. After following this thread for a week, I found tragic irony in a news story in my local paper about a woman who went missing 6 weeks ago. Here is the pertinent quote (emphasis added by me):

"Without any fresh news from police, her family turned to a local psychic last week. Phil Jordan told them that he envisioned Madden as meeting up with two men. He told them that she may have been injured in the head or chest, but that he didn't envision her as being dead, he said on a tape recording.

Jordan also pointed them to Great Bend, Pa. - a border community with New York state. This information gave them hope. One of the first tips to police was that a woman fitting Madden's description had been spotted hitchhiking in Great Bend.

The family drove the streets of the small Pennsylvania community. They put up posters there and spoke to Pennsylvania State Police. But they've heard nothing, her mother and father said. The lead never panned out."

Gee. I wonder why?

Here is the link to the full news report:
http://pressconnects.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060222/NEWS01/602220313/1006

Sounds all too familiar, doesn't it? The name Phil Jordan is probably all too familiar to members of the forum.
 
KellyJ,

Thanks for starting this thread. I've referred a friend, who is a big Sylvia Brown fan, to your website and here. My hope is to show her that there is harm in what these people do.

Keep up the great work!!
 
KellyJ said:
Hello Gr8wight....love the hat. Thanks for the warm welcome.
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Unfortunately, it is not my hat.

I don't feel brave, really.
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I think that those we see as brave never see themselves as brave. They simply see themselves as having done what was necessary.

I noticed the language at twopercent. If I choose to use that link in the series, I will post a warning. Thanks for being sensitive to the needs of others.

Kelly
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Shhh, don't tell anyone. You'll spoil my rep.
 
Oh my, Wanderin....you seem to have placed yourself on the defensive. If you recall, you pm'd me, offering your "services". I assumed you must have not really read the thread well, otherwise it would have been apparent to you that I did not want to receive solicitations of this type. I encouraged you to post a separate thread about whatever it is that you say you do for the edification of others. Instead, you came back here and launched a verbal assault. If you go back to post #38, you will see that I mentioned I would give you the benefit of the doubt. I was not unkind. However, you were.

Whether or not a person wants money or does not want money has no bearing on the damage done to the psyche by individuals claiming to have knowledge of a missing person's whereabouts who do not. I do not close the door completely on such persons. I do tell them that if they think they know something, they should take that information straight to law enforcement. I let them discern if the information has any merit and act upon it accordingly.

I don't know if you have children or not, and even if you don't, why don’t you imagine the person you love most in the world? Imagine that he/she is gone, and you have no idea what has happened to them. Dozens, and perhaps even hundreds of people come forward, offering their "help". They tell you all sorts of things, none of them the same as the others, and none of them ever results in finding the missing loved one. Regardless, you MUST listen to all of it, over and over again, lest you be accused of not wanting to find the missing loved one. You must listen to them tell you the most horrid things you can imagine being done to a person by another. You must listen to them telling you that your missing loved one was stabbed, beaten, and then their head was bashed in. You must listen as they tell you that your missing loved one was still alive, wimpering and asking for help as he/she drew their last breath, and no one was listening. He/she was all alone, and then the end came.

All of these people who come to you offering help want you to go through something like that. How did you feel reading that? How many times would you want to hear stories like that? What do you think that does to a person? Do you think it's healthy? How is it that it is called "helping"? Nothing has ever come of it except for pain. Is pain helpful? Does pain find the missing person?

Granted, this is the worst of this type of thing, but people who are not in this position have no idea of the roller coaster ride of emotions that we ride daily. We live with an ongoing trauma. Anyone in the medical field can understand what trauma does to a person mentally and physically. To add to that trauma needlessly is not a good idea. Needlessly refers to the fact that persons using paranormal means have not proven themselves useful in finding the missing person. I just don't know how much clearer I can make this. And in regards to caring, I care a great deal. If I didn’t, I wouldn't do this work while dealing with my own loss. Anyone who knows the work I have done cannnot dispute that I care. The fact that you do not understand how I can disagree with your opinion does not negate my caring.

BTW, every single word written on the website and the blog are written by me unless otherwise noted. I really don't know what that has to do with anything, just as I do not understand the comment about donations. Where do you think a nonprofit gets their money? My husband and I are both working stiffs. Our family is not well off financially, so we cannot front the money to the organization to pay for the services provided. Just as with almost all small nonprofits, we depend upon the generosity of the public to help us accomplish our goals. We have no paid staff and we do not not even have an office. The only equipment owned by the organization is one phone and one laptop, which was donated. Without donations, how would we pay the phone or the website bill? How would we pay for the Personal ID Kits and other safety/prevention information we give away? How would we pay for the financial aid given to the families for visual aids, such as posters? We do not charge one penny to anyone for these services. We will not take money from the families we serve. That is wrong in our opinion. How would you propose that we pay for all of this if not through donations from generous people?

I have taken a considerable amount of my time now to help you understand this, Wanderin. I hope it is helpful to you in some way.

Now I ask that the thread be returned to its purpose, which is for members here to help me help the families of the missing understand the issues regarding psychics. I again encourage you to start your own thread about your methods. Thank you in advance for your consideration.
 
KellyJ said:
I don't know if you have children or not, and even if you don't, why don’t you imagine the person you love most in the world? Imagine that he/she is gone, and you have no idea what has happened to them. Dozens, and perhaps even hundreds of people come forward, offering their "help". They tell you all sorts of things, none of them the same as the others, and none of them ever results in finding the missing loved one. Regardless, you MUST listen to all of it, over and over again, lest you be accused of not wanting to find the missing loved one. You must listen to them tell you the most horrid things you can imagine being done to a person by another. You must listen to them telling you that your missing loved one was stabbed, beaten, and then their head was bashed in. You must listen as they tell you that your missing loved one was still alive, wimpering and asking for help as he/she drew their last breath, and no one was listening. He/she was all alone, and then the end came.
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Kelly, if (WHEN!) you end up making a presentation at The Amazing Meeting next year, this should be your opening statement.

Nominated for the language award. I’ve linked to it in case Kelly doesn’t know what that is.
 
Wow, Kelly. You have my compliments for your post. I'm glad to see it's already been nominated for the language award.
 
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