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Psychics and Missing People

KellyJ said:
I am going to ask you one more time to start your own thread. This thread is not about you or your claimed abilities.

Kelly
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Thanks Kelly, for getting us back on topic.

I've been trying to think of new ideas that might help, but haven't found anything yet. But I won’t stop. I'll check out your site, and can at least make a modest contribution. (I am presently under funded myself.)

My heart goes out to you, your family, and to anyone else in similar circumstances.

Last summer I read a book dealing with missing children. I had to stop one third through, as I would become too emotional, even while reading fiction.

I hope that this thread has helped you, despite a few tangents that are almost inevitable in such a forum. There are good people here. People willing to actually help. Even if it’s only to have a place where you can explore your options, and spread awareness of the plight of others with missing relatives.

Kevin
 
I have asked moderators if they could remove the posts made today from Wanderin and related to Wanderin. I also asked if they could place them on a new thread just for Wanderin. I don't know if that's possible, but as one person said, this thread had alot of good information pre-clutter.

If you would please, do not respond to him. I am now trying to find the serious posts so that I may respond to those.

Thank you!

Kelly
 
J. Arthur Hastur said:
Cora Baron, at it again.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0206/2301_grinstead_family_tries_to_find_her.html

Now preying upon Tara Grinstead's family.
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I believe they mean Carla Baron.

This all becomes a vicious circle. No leads in the case=desperation on the part of the family. No leads also equals no media coverage which increases the desperation and leads to contacting these people.

Someone on this forum contacts the authors of these media articles when they are posted online. They attempt to set them straight about psychics and the lack of evidence they do anything other than harming the families.

I think this is an excellent idea.

Here's a news article about this case:
http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4538336&nav=5kZQ
 
coalesce said:
KellyJ, my heart goes out to you and your family. Have you thought of setting up an PayPal account for your site so people can make donations through that?

Michael
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Hi Michael,

There is a long and very detailed answer as to why we do not have a Paypal account set up. I know if we did, we would get more donations.

To try to summarize: Each state has laws governing charitable organizations and the solicitation/acceptance of donations. There is a debate about whether an Internet presence, such as an org's website, constitutes a solicitation simply because of its existence.

At this time, the governing entity of these states as it pertains to donations, has not made a ruling that a website is not a soliciation. Therefore, an org should comply to the rules of that state.

Some states have lengthy applications and fees that must be paid in order to accept donations. The fees add up to about 1k, so we did not pursue that since we do not receive many donations. For example, In Utah, the fee is $100, but if no one from Utah ever donates, that is not a wise way to spend the public's money when we don't have much to begin with.

Most orgs do not study this and will just put up a Paypal link.
 
cabby said:
Kelly, I would like to apologise for de-railing earlier, and for my little emotional outburst.

What you are doing is amazing, and I am sorry about the source of all the good work. I hope that some day you get closure of some kind. I think the ideas you have put forward are all excellent, and I wish I could offer some practical help.

I'm not a debunker, or a psychiatrist, nor do I have any links I can offer to assist you. I am a budding writer however (unpublished), so perhaps I could write up something for you, if you would like. Perhaps I could look into the woman I mentioned earlier who won the tv show here in the UK. Her site claims that she has given help to various police forces in solving cases and tracing people, and shows letters from police forces about her input.

A good article writer, in my opinion, is Tony Youens. You can see examples of his articles examining psychic performances at his site: http://www.tonyyouens.com/ and he is a regular poster here too. In my opinion he would be a good guest writer for you.
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Hi Cabby,

No problem. Thanks for your kind words. I took a look at Tony's site and agree that he would be an excellent guest writer. I was going to write to him, but as always, I'm buried under a huge pile of work. If anyone wishes to write to him on my behalf, similar to Mariah's contacting Susan, I would be happy to delegate!

I'd still like to see some action pertaining to my posts #71 & 72, so this would certainly help. If no one can/wants to take this on in respect to writing Tony, I will get to it eventually.

I took the day off to try to get caught up on several things, one of them being the serious post and inquiries here.

Kelly
 
Roadtoad said:
Kelly, if there's a way, can you get me some photos of your son and those you're looking for? If I can, while I'm out on the road, I'll see if anyone will post those pictures. Truck stops sometimes accept them, and I'll see if Cal Trans will allow them at rest areas. Ditto NDOT and other orgs. Maybe other drivers will take a few.

It's not much, but if it helps, well, I'm willing.
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Hi Roadtoad,

We have posters online of numerous missing persons, including my son. We encourage the public to go to these sites and print and place posters wherever they can....absolutely!

Links to our poster campaign programs:
http://www.projectjason.org/18wheel.html
http://www.projectjason.org/comehome.html

If this doesn't work for you, PM or email me your snail mail address, and I will mail you whatever number you indicate.

Thank you!

Kelly
 
DSE said:
In terms of notable skeptics on the topic, Benjamin Radford from the Skeptical Inquirer just did an interview on the Point of Inquiry podcast on Psychics Detectives. It was a good interview, and he might be a good person talk to. Hope this helps.
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Would anyone want to contact Benjamin, or do you have a contact link for him?

Thanks,
Kelly
 
Kelly,

Keep an eye out for when the TAM4 DVD comes out. Ben Radford had an excellent paper on the failure of psychic detectives.
 
Last edited:
Mercutio: "KellyJ--a question, where you would have a better answer than most: Suppose we read in our local paper of a child who has gone missing. Would it be a reasonable or unreasonable idea to contact (perhaps a flyer by mail would be a fairly non-intrusive way?) them with information about the worthlessness of these predatory scum "psychics"? Perhaps with information about websites like yours, or some of the information from your (or another appropriate) site?

I feel like I would want to contact them and say "send all such psychic volunteers to me, and I'll deal with them for you, so that you are not subjected to this torture", but I also realize that is somewhat insulting to them. And of course, doing nothing leaves this helpless feeling...

Just an idea..."
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I think that's a very interesting idea, Mercutio. I, too have been reading this thread and getting an increasing feeling of helplessness and desparation. I'll respect whatever KellyJ's answer is as to whether it might be appropriate to contact these grieving stressed out parents directly.

I'm wondering if somehow we could put together a site specifically as a resource for those of us that wish to help stop these "psychic" predators. Perhaps it could include samples of letters to be sent to newspapers, newstations, etc complaining when they post news about such&such psychics working on a case. Maybe even some kind of blanket warning statement to be aired when someone is reported as missing warning that these predators may come out at times like this seeking only to improve their own status, publicity or wealth, with links to skeptical sites that lay out the facts.

Maybe even a resource kit to be sent to police stations, that they could pass on to victims, should it seem appropriate, that includes contact info for a local skeptic society that would offer to help them fend off these whackos...?

Just throwing out some ideas.

There is a meeting this weekend of our local skeptic society. I think maybe I'll go and see if there's any interest there.

Meg
 
KellyJ said:
I'd still like to see some action pertaining to my posts #71 & 72, so this would certainly help. If no one can/wants to take this on in respect to writing Tony, I will get to it eventually.
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For post #71, you can PM Linda and ask if what you want to do is acceptable to the Foundation. None of us can speak for JREF.

But it looks good to me, and I don't think Linda will have any problem with it.

Linda is aware of this topic, and supportive of your goals. So you won't need to give a long explanation.
 
Mercutio said:
KellyJ--a question, where you would have a better answer than most: Suppose we read in our local paper of a child who has gone missing. Would it be a reasonable or unreasonable idea to contact (perhaps a flyer by mail would be a fairly non-intrusive way?) them with information about the worthlessness of these predatory scum "psychics"? Perhaps with information about websites like yours, or some of the information from your (or another appropriate) site?

I feel like I would want to contact them and say "send all such psychic volunteers to me, and I'll deal with them for you, so that you are not subjected to this torture", but I also realize that is somewhat insulting to them. And of course, doing nothing leaves this helpless feeling...

Just an idea...
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That is a very interesting and worthy idea. Not only does it make the family aware of these vipers early in the game before desperation mode sets in, but it also lets them know about the existence of organizations, such as ours.

It is a fact, and a sad one, that in the majority of cases, LE (law enforcement) do NOT give the family of the missing a referral to a missing person organization. As most people do not know what actions to take when this happens, they will sit back, thinking LE is doing it all. In the cases of runaways and adults, sometimes LE does nothing! Time is a great enemy here, and families should be taking other steps immediately to find their loved one.

Going back to the psychic issue, perhaps we should draft a one page letter that expresses our sorrow at the situation, and then moves into some basic steps to take info, and finally, cautions the family about psychics and provides links to the (future) blog series and our org.

Members, upon seeing news about a missing person could see if the family's contact info is public and send them the letter. If it is not public, they could send it to the media outlet, and ask them to forward it. Doing the latter would educate them as well!

Does that make sense?
 
KellyJ said:
That is a very interesting and worthy idea. Not only does it make the family aware of these vipers early in the game before desperation mode sets in, but it also lets them know about the existence of organizations, such as ours.

It is a fact, and a sad one, that in the majority of cases, LE (law enforcement) do NOT give the family of the missing a referral to a missing person organization. As most people do not know what actions to take when this happens, they will sit back, thinking LE is doing it all. In the cases of runaways and adults, sometimes LE does nothing! Time is a great enemy here, and families should be taking other steps immediately to find their loved one.

Going back to the psychic issue, perhaps we should draft a one page letter that expresses our sorrow at the situation, and then moves into some basic steps to take info, and finally, cautions the family about psychics and provides links to the (future) blog series and our org.

Members, upon seeing news about a missing person could see if the family's contact info is public and send them the letter. If it is not public, they could send it to the media outlet, and ask them to forward it. Doing the latter would educate them as well!

Does that make sense?
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Excellent. Warnings about "the second wave of predators". Terrific ideas here.
 
meg said:
I think that's a very interesting idea, Mercutio. I, too have been reading this thread and getting an increasing feeling of helplessness and desparation. I'll respect whatever KellyJ's answer is as to whether it might be appropriate to contact these grieving stressed out parents directly.

I'm wondering if somehow we could put together a site specifically as a resource for those of us that wish to help stop these "psychic" predators. Perhaps it could include samples of letters to be sent to newspapers, newstations, etc complaining when they post news about such&such psychics working on a case. Maybe even some kind of blanket warning statement to be aired when someone is reported as missing warning that these predators may come out at times like this seeking only to improve their own status, publicity or wealth, with links to skeptical sites that lay out the facts.

Maybe even a resource kit to be sent to police stations, that they could pass on to victims, should it seem appropriate, that includes contact info for a local skeptic society that would offer to help them fend off these whackos...?

Just throwing out some ideas.

There is a meeting this weekend of our local skeptic society. I think maybe I'll go and see if there's any interest there.

Meg
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I love this, Meg!! (and your chocolate, too)

What an excellent idea.

There might be some kind person out there who would donate space on a webserver, another person to buy/donate a domain name, and a 3rd person to act as webmaster. (or any combination therein)

A talented webmaster knows how to get hits when the public looks up "missing persons", thus leading the families to the site.

The resource kit is also a good idea, although I am skeptical that it would go beyond the hands of the recipient in many cases. I say this because I have fought for two years to get our local LE to give us as a resource when doing a case intake, I even then suggested that they give the two main orgs, National Center for Missing Adults (NCMA) and National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, (NCMEC) but they won't even do that. (See my post about this issue a few above this) CYA is what I think is going on there. CYA is more important to them than a life, apparently.

Let's hear from others about this. I think it's awesome.
 
KellyJ said:
I love this, Meg!! (and your chocolate, too)

What an excellent idea.

There might be some kind person out there who would donate space on a webserver, another person to buy/donate a domain name, and a 3rd person to act as webmaster. (or any combination therein)

A talented webmaster knows how to get hits when the public looks up "missing persons", thus leading the families to the site.

The resource kit is also a good idea, although I am skeptical that it would go beyond the hands of the recipient in many cases. I say this because I have fought for two years to get our local LE to give us as a resource when doing a case intake, I even then suggested that they give the two main orgs, National Center for Missing Adults (NCMA) and National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, (NCMEC) but they won't even do that. (See my post about this issue a few above this) CYA is what I think is going on there. CYA is more important to them than a life, apparently.

Let's hear from others about this. I think it's awesome.
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I'm in for the domain and to webmaster it, but I can't develop a website for crap. any talented web developers willing to put something together for me to get up and running? What's the domain nam going to be?
 
Wonderful!

I think the name will be very important. It should somehow have missing persons in it.

Let's brainstorm.
 
no-psychics.org
psychic-proof.org
psychic-help.org
???

oops. just now saw your comment about having missing persons in the name...

I'll go think some more.

Meg
 
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