Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

ETA FWIW: I'd prefer deregulation and privatization over solutions which involve telling everyone in a given state/province/nation how to run their bathrooms and locker rooms and the like. Then we could have old-fashioned Korean spas down the street from new-fangled all-gender spas, instead of having to travel to red states for the former and blue states for the latter.
That works fine for spas. It doesn’t work for public bathrooms. If I’m at, say, an airport, I don’t really have a choice about which style I go with. And you can’t really privatize airports, not in this sense.
 
Airports should be allowed to decide based on local consumer preferences
Why? They don't only serve locals. And given how air travel works, they also have a monopoly on serving customers to certain areas (and for hubs, quite a bit of travel for passengers just passing through), so they aren't exactly optional like spas are.
I don't expect OKC to have the same rules as SFO.
I don't care if a spa in San Francisco (or Oklahoma, for that matter) chooses to allow males and females to be naked together in the same space, so long as they let customers know the rules beforehand so they can choose whether or not to participate. If some women like to sit around with naked trans-identifying males, that's no skin off my nose. Choose your customer base. Nobody needs to go to a spa.

But I do care if an airport allows someone like Bryson to go into the same bathroom as my daughter. I'm not OK with that at OKC or SFO, and "local customs" can ◊◊◊◊ right off. That's not acceptable anywhere.
 
But I do care if an airport allows someone like Bryson to go into the same bathroom as my daughter. I'm not OK with that at OKC or SFO, and "local customs" can ◊◊◊◊ right off. That's not acceptable anywhere.
I regret to inform you that it is definitely socially acceptable in much of Europe, assuming that "someone like Bryson" isn't currently serving time.

We don't get to export our social mores except in rare instances such as Afghanistan, and even then it doesn't generally take.
 
I regret to inform you that it is definitely socially acceptable in much of Europe
I regret to inform you that Europe is mostly a dying civilization, and their choices on such matters are not to be emulated.
 
I regret to inform you that Europe is mostly a dying civilization, and their choices on such matters are not to be emulated.
They have airports, though, and sometimes we have to fly there for work.

On rare occasions we have to accept that other cultures don't do things the way we (Americans) would prefer.

A while back I had to brief JASDF officers at Bōei-shō about some RM&A study results. Turns out they do things differently there than they do here in the States; I had to adjust to customs and toilets which were quite baffling at first.
 
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They have airports, though, and sometimes we have to fly there for work.
The fact that I am powerless to do anything about their suicidal choices doesn't make them OK.

But I'm not even sure how accurate your characterization actually is. In the US, we are often exposed to upper class European opinion more than we are to popular European opinion. And trans advocacy has always been a luxury belief. I suspect most Europeans may actually be less accommodating to Bryson than European "thought leaders" would have us think. And as we have seen in a number of cases like the UK Supreme Court gender/sex ruling, the Cass report, and a few others, the pendulum may be swinging the other way.
 
Unsure what you are advocating, really. Presumably it wouldn't be all that difficult to transition from our current setup (basically an honor system where we trust people to sort themselves) to a system where people are automatically scanned, identified, and documented at point of service. This would require significant capital outlays and a cultural shift around anonymity, but it would obviate the need to station human people who ask us for our "papers, please" prior to using the facilities.
I'm proposing a return to the honor system, with legal protections for citizens that try to enforce it.

ETA FWIW: I'd prefer deregulation and privatization over solutions which involve telling everyone in a given state/province/nation how to run their bathrooms and locker rooms and the like. Then we could have old-fashioned Korean spas down the street from new-fangled all-gender spas, instead of having to travel to red states for the former and blue states for the latter.
This is obtuse.

In the private sector, regulation is necessary to give establishments legal protection for enforcing sex-based segregation. Otherwise we'll end up with more of the same sexual harassment and lawfare that we're already seeing in places where the legal protections have been weakened or removed.

In the public sector, regulation is necessary in the form of clearly defined and enforced policies for sex segregation.

But, again, this is obtuse. Instead of using a perfectly cromulent word to mean a thing, you're arguing against the thing purely because you've decided to interpret the word as "ominous".
 
I'm proposing a return to the honor system, with legal protections for citizens that try to enforce it.
You don't really need legal protections for segregation by sex (observed at birth) or gender (declared at the moment) if you've repealed the laws under which plaintiffs file suit against places of public accommodation for treating customers differently based on these characteristics. That said, an explicit carveout might be easier to pass and easier for courts to interpret consistently.
In the private sector, regulation is necessary to give establishments legal protection for enforcing sex-based segregation. Otherwise we'll end up with more of the same sexual harassment and lawfare that we're already seeing in places where the legal protections have been weakened or removed.
I'm confident that you have specific examples in mind, but none of them spring readily into mine.
In the public sector, regulation is necessary in the form of clearly defined and enforced policies for sex segregation.
Agreed.
Instead of using a perfectly cromulent word to mean a thing, you're arguing against the thing purely because you've decided to interpret the word as "ominous".
It is indeed ominous to imply that you'd like to regulate people because they suffer from AGP, a psychological condition which isn't in the DSM and thus cannot be ascertained with any degree of medical consensus.
 
The fact that I am powerless to do anything about their suicidal choices doesn't make them OK.
It's bad enough that you've picked a serial rapist as a stand-in for every trans woman seeking to use a bathroom, but this claim is so hyperbolic that I'm unsure whether to keep going.
 
It doesn't have to include feelings of arousal, obviously, and it is not typically defined so as to include it.
Of course it's not defined that way by pro-trans sources. Of course, none of those sources will even remotely acknowledge that autogynephilia is associated with transgender identities either. Similarly, no religious fundamentalist would define their faith as including hatred and aggression.
Seriously, where are you reading this stuff?
Stuff that transgender people actually write about themselves and their own experiences.
 
If I wanted to understand what the trans subculture means by a phrase by "gender euphoria" I would check out a book like this one and see what activists and authors are willing to commit to print under their own bylines.
That's a rather biased approach to gaining knowledge. You're essentially limiting your information to only the most positive narrative that can be crafted, and excluding anything that presents a downside.

If you go by what activists are willing to commit to print... then every single transgender identified male ever is completely safe, would never ever harm any females, and is a delicate flower.
 
It's bad enough that you've picked a serial rapist as a stand-in for every trans woman seeking to use a bathroom
I did nothing of the sort.
but this claim is so hyperbolic that I'm unsure whether to keep going.
There is nothing hyperbolic about the suicide of Europe. Since you seem easily confused by what I'm saying, let me clarify: the trans issue isn't primarily what's driving them to suicide. But it's very much a part of the general pattern of cultural suicide.
 
Airports should be allowed to decide based on local consumer preferences; I don't expect OKC to have the same rules as SFO.
Tyranny of the majority... or at least tyranny of the vocal. Imagine if 100% of males are perfectly fine with special males using female facilities, and 20% of females are also okay with it... then you have a majority of people who are just fine overriding consent for all of the females who are NOT okay with it.
 
You're essentially limiting your information to only the most positive narrative that can be crafted, and excluding anything that presents a downside.
No, I'm limiting myself to narratives which are directly on topic instead of cherry picking Reddit for viral content from pseudonymous posters. "Gender euphoria" was coined by a certain community, it isn't remotely biased to go to them to ask what it should be taken to mean.
If you go by what activists are willing to commit to print... then every single transgender identified male ever is completely safe, would never ever harm any females, and is a delicate flower.
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Imagine if 100% of males are perfectly fine with special males using female facilities, and 20% of females are also okay with it... then you have a majority of people who are just fine overriding consent for all of the females who are NOT okay with it.
Imagine if only 20% of females objected and you still said that was grounds to maintain segregation by sex instead of changing it to the policy favored by the other 80%.
 
None of these pro-trans policies are actually implemented because of popular support.
Well if you want to bring facts into it then I'd reject the hypothetical from @Emily's Cat on other grounds altogether. The premise that men and women would be 80% apart on a question like this is rather silly, especially with men overwhelmingly espousing the progressive position despite voting 5-10% more conservatively than women.
 

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