Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[smartcooky]

Peripheral Precocious Puberty due to Exogenous Estradiol in a 3-Year-Old Girl: A Case Report

Christ on a bike!

Exposure to exogenous estradiol can lead to precocious puberty in prepubertal girls. Transgender persons should be thoroughly informed of the risk of transmission of transdermal hormones and be advised to wash hands, use gloves and avoid skin contact shortly after hormone application. Patients with children must be warned of the risk and Gender Clinics should consider the possibility of prescribing alternative routes of administration such as tablets or patches in high-risk patients.​

 

[Rolfe]

It doesn't have to include feelings of arousal, obviously, and it is not typically defined so as to include it.

Seriously, where are you reading this stuff?

I read exactly the same. Much of the public-facing "literature" about the trans experience is highly sanitised. If you look at what these men themselves are saying on Reddit, Twitter and TikTok, you see a very different picture.

 

[Aber]

UK Government publishes new guidance on relationship education which includes a LGBT section:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...528c/RSHE_statutory_guidance_-_July_2025_.pdf

Pupils should also be taught the facts and the law about biological sex and gender reassignment. This should recognise that people have legal rights by virtue of their biological sex which are different from the rights of those of the opposite sex with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment. Pupils should also be taught to recognise that people with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment, as with the other protected characteristics, have protection from discrimination and should be treated with respect and dignity.

Bolded bit relates to discrimination law, and choice of comparator; IIUC the correct comparator for a transwoman is a male without the protected characteristic of gender reassignment, not a female. It's subtle but will have a large impact on discrimination claims.

In teaching this, schools should be mindful that beyond the facts and the law about biological sex and gender reassignment there is significant debate, and they should be careful not to endorse any particular view or teach it as fact. For example, they should not teach as fact that all people have a gender identity. Schools should avoid language and activities which repeat or enforce gender stereotypes. Schools should be mindful to avoid any suggestion that social transition is a simple solution to feelings of distress or discomfort.

Raising the bar for social transition.

 

[smartcooky]

UK Government publishes new guidance on relationship education which includes a LGBT section:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...528c/RSHE_statutory_guidance_-_July_2025_.pdf


Bolded bit relates to discrimination law, and choice of comparator; IIUC the correct comparator for a transwoman is a male without the protected characteristic of gender reassignment, not a female. It's subtle but will have a large impact on discrimination claims.


Raising the bar for social transition.

The tide continues to turn against the speciousness of gender ideology.

 

[d4m10n]

If you look at what these men themselves are saying on Reddit, Twitter and TikTok, you see a very different picture.

I think you mean if we look at what the worst of them are saying, as collected and filtered through gendercrit aggregators like Ovarit or Reduxx.

 

[Rolfe]

Whatever. You think we shouldn't be concerned about the worst of them, then?

 

[d4m10n]

You think we shouldn't be concerned about the worst of them, then?

I think you shouldn't assume gender euphoria is "almost always accompanied by an erection" without significantly better evidence than cherry picking social media.

 

[p0lka]

Avoided costs are not profits. Often they're nothing more than a smaller loss.

Same concept as "lesser evil" - it's still an evil.

Getting up in the morning and expecting a problem because of a thing, yet the problem doesn't occur, feels like an upside to me. The lack of a downside for the thing is an upside in itself.

 

[smartcooky]

I think you shouldn't assume gender euphoria is "almost always accompanied by an erection" without significantly better evidence than cherry picking social media.

Your "better evidence" is difficult, if not impossible to find when the very people charged with studying the topics in question are ideologically captured and very carefully curating the results to prevent or minimize the things they don't want the public to know being published. When that happens, the public are left with no choice but to resort to their own observations.

When Rolfe posts her observations - examples of the behaviour of some transgender self-identified males, that's not cherry picking - those aren't third party posts, they are people's OWN posts on Twitter, Tik-Tok, Reddit etc, about thelselves! When Rolfe's "the worst of them" show you exactly who they are... believe them!

 

[Graham2001]

UK Government publishes new guidance on relationship education which includes a LGBT section:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...528c/RSHE_statutory_guidance_-_July_2025_.pdf

Raising the bar for social transition.

Commentary on the above and the response to it...

The rhetoric is ramping up: the Government has supposedly “banned” schools from teaching children about transgender identities. Its new statutory guidance on sex education has been condemned as another Section 28, which draws a parallel with 1980s legislation that outlawed the promotion of homosexuality in schools.

It’s a completely false equivalence, but a post on X making these claims has been viewed more than half a million times. What’s really happening is that the Government, albeit with some reluctance, is finally taking steps towards removing the bizarre and unscientific claims inserted by outside organisations into sex education in schools.

Parents have been astonished to hear children claim there are 20 or 30 genders, and spouting jargon about being “born in the wrong body”. In some instances, concerned mothers and fathers have been told they can’t see materials used in sex education, with external providers citing commercial confidentiality.

UK’s new school gender guidance was long overdue

The rhetoric is ramping up: the Government has supposedly “banned” schools from teaching children about transgender identities. Its new statutory guidance on sex education has been condemned as another Section 28, which draws a parallel with 1980s legislation that outlawed the promotion of...

unherd.com

 

[smartcooky]

Parents have been astonished to hear children claim there are 20 or 30 genders, and spouting jargon about being “born in the wrong body”. In some instances, concerned mothers and fathers have been told they can’t see materials used in sex education, with external providers citing commercial confidentiality.

It's no wonder home schooling is on the increase in western society. I wouldn't want my children exposed to this unscientific and false claptrap either.

 

[d4m10n]

When Rolfe posts her observations - examples of the behaviour of some transgender self-identified males, that's not cherry picking - those aren't third party posts, they are people's OWN posts on Twitter, Tik-Tok, Reddit etc, about the[m]selves!

First off, I am skeptical that Rolfe is randomly sampling social sites for representative content, rather than relying on aggregators which highlight the worst examples (e.g. Libs of TikTok) focused on shocking over-the-top content which appeals to the gender critical crowd. That's the cherry-picking part.

Secondly, we have no idea whether those are "people's OWN posts," elaborate parody, casual trolling, or AI slop. In an age where digital misinformation is nearly costless to produce and distribute, we shouldn't take anything at face value if we cannot trace it back to an actual named individual.

If I wanted to understand what the trans subculture means by a phrase by "gender euphoria" I would check out a book like this one and see what activists and authors are willing to commit to print under their own bylines. (Spoiler: None of them acknowledge that it's really about getting bricked up over seeing oneself as a woman, not even the queer nonbinary disabled schizophrenic full-service sex worker.)

 

[smartcooky]

First off, I am skeptical that Rolfe is randomly sampling social sites for representative content, rather than relying on aggregators which highlight the worst examples (e.g. Libs of TikTok) focused on shocking over-the-top content which appeals to the gender critical crowd. That's the cherry-picking part.

I'll take @Rolfe at her word that she's not doing this.

Secondly, we have no idea whether those are "people's OWN posts," elaborate parody, casual trolling, or AI slop.

I regard myself as a pretty good judge of what is fake and what is not. I can spot AI YouTube and Twitter posts from the length of the street. Their usual slip up is a lack of history, but there are other obvious signs as well.

In an age where digital misinformation is nearly costless to produce and distribute, we shouldn't take anything at face value if we cannot trace it back to an actual named individual.

I have yet to see one of Tilde's post what wasn't traceable back to an individual with a considerable history of interactions.

If I wanted to understand what the trans subculture means by a phrase by "gender euphoria" I would check out a book like this one and see what activists and authors are willing to commit to print under their own bylines. (Spoiler: None of them acknowledge that it's really about getting bricked up over seeing oneself as a woman, not even the queer nonbinary disabled schizophrenic full-service sex worker.)

Bwhahaha! Why on earth would I want to read TRA propaganda written by a Trans Identifying Male?

 

[smartcooky]

First off, I am skeptical that Rolfe is randomly sampling social sites for representative content, rather than relying on aggregators which highlight the worst examples (e.g. Libs of TikTok) focused on shocking over-the-top content which appeals to the gender critical crowd. That's the cherry-picking part.

I'll take @Rolfe at her word that she's not doing this.

Secondly, we have no idea whether those are "people's OWN posts," elaborate parody, casual trolling, or AI slop.

I regard myself as a pretty good judge of what is fake and what is not. I can spot AI YouTube and Twitter posts from the length of the strett. Their usual slip up is a lack of history, but there are other obvious signs as well

In an age where digital misinformation is nearly costless to produce and distribute, we shouldn't take anything at face value if we cannot trace it back to an actual named individual.

I have yet to see one of Rolfe's posts that wasn't traceable back to an individual with a considerable history of interactions.

If I wanted to understand what the trans subculture means by a phrase by "gender euphoria" I would check out a book like this one and see what activists and authors are willing to commit to print under their own bylines. (Spoiler: None of them acknowledge that it's really about getting bricked up over seeing oneself as a woman, not even the queer nonbinary disabled schizophrenic full-service sex worker.)

Bwhahaha! Why on earth would I want to read TRA propaganda written by a Trans Identifying Male

 

[d4m10n]

I'll take Rolfe at her word that she's not doing this.

Where did they deny it?

Why on earth would I want to read TRA propaganda written by a Trans Identifying Male?

Because the phrase "gender euphoria" was coined by people like them and we were just discussing what the phrase should be taken to mean and whether it is invariably accompanied by a certain involuntary physiological responses.

I have yet to see one of Rolfe's posts that wasn't traceable back to an individual with a considerable history of interactions.

Who exactly were the individuals who described "gender euphoria" in terms of arousal?

 

[theprestige]

I think you mean if we look at what the worst of them are saying, as collected and filtered through gendercrit aggregators like Ovarit or Reduxx.

The worst?

We're looking at what the most openly aroused of them are saying. Whether that's worse than the alternatives is a different question. It's probably moot, though, since you and Rolfe have already agreed that this is worse. I tend to agree that seeking transition for sexual pleasure is probably a bad thing, that needs treatment rather than enablement.

Also - thanks primarily to Rolfe - we've covered the comorbidity of AGP, which involves sexual arousal from transsexual ideation and play, with gender dysphoria. So I think it's reasonable to assume (a) that many of the men seeking transition (a suffer from AGP, (b) have a component of sexual arousal to their transition-seeking/validating behavior, and that (c) the few that are vocal about their arousal on social media are a subset of a larger AGP group that makes up a significant portion of the TIM population.

Therefore, I further think it is reasonable to consider the risks this unexamined, unregulated AGP cohort poses to women under a self-ID regime. And I also further think it is reasonable to mitigate these risks, primarily by abolishing self-ID in public policy.

Finally, I don't see any benefit to instituting self-ID in public policy, that would override even a small amount of risk from this cohort. Even if Rolfe and I are waaay overestimating the risk this cohort poses, there's still no reason to implement self-ID. It's bad for AGPs, it's bad for other dysphorics, it's bad for women, it's bad for society.

 

[d4m10n]

We're looking at what the most openly aroused of them are saying.

Are we actually looking though? I cannot think of any quotes (shared on this iteration of the thread) from named individuals claiming to be aroused.

the few that are vocal about their arousal on social media are a subset of a larger AGP group that makes up a significant portion of the TIM population

I don't disagree with this statement, but it isn't what I would characterize as a steelman version of the earlier claim that feelings of "gender euphoria" are "almost always accompanied by an erection" which I was addressing. It's not particularly difficult to envision someone being thrilled with how much their body has changed without also becoming aroused by that thrill; anyone who has gotten back into shape can sort of wrap their head around the idea.

I further think it is reasonable to consider the risks this unexamined, unregulated AGP cohort poses to women under a self-ID regime.

We can look at these risks evenhandedly without exaggerating them to include gender euphoria boners under every passing trans woman's skirt.

ETA: Unregulated? That sounds ominous.

 

[theprestige]

Are we actually looking though? I cannot think of any quotes (shared on this iteration of the thread) from named individuals claiming to be aroused.

I don't disagree with this statement, but it isn't what I would characterize as a steelman version of the earlier claim that feelings of "gender euphoria" are "almost always accompanied by an erection" which I was addressing. It's not particularly difficult to envision someone being thrilled with how much their body has changed without also becoming aroused by that thrill; anyone who has gotten back into shape can sort of wrap their head around the idea.

We can look at these risks evenhandedly without exaggerating them to include gender euphoria boners under every trans woman's skirt.

ETA: Unregulated? That sounds ominous.

Yeah, well, biological essentialism sounds like transphobic crypto-fascism to a certain kind of well-trained ear.

But sure, okay, I agree. It does sound ominous. There's a reason I came into this debate opposed to "papers please" as a solution. There's a reason why I use the classically ominous turn of phrase to describe such a solution.

But we can't have a conversation without words. And I don't see how we can talk about entitlements to override sex segregation in public policy, without talking about how such entitlements might be regulated.

If you think there's something truly ominous in what I'm advocating, say so plainly.

 

[d4m10n]

If you think there's something truly ominous in what I'm advocating, say so plainly.

Unsure what you are advocating, really. Presumably it wouldn't be all that difficult to transition from our current setup (basically an honor system where we trust people to sort themselves) to a system where people are automatically scanned, identified, and documented at point of service. This would require significant capital outlays and a cultural shift around anonymity, but it would obviate the need to station human people who ask us for our "papers, please" prior to using the facilities.

ETA FWIW: I'd prefer deregulation and privatization over solutions which involve telling everyone in a given state/province/nation how to run their bathrooms and locker rooms and the like. Then we could have old-fashioned Korean spas down the street from new-fangled all-gender spas, instead of having to travel to red states for the former and blue states for the latter.

 

[smartcooky]

Are we actually looking though? I cannot think of any quotes (shared on this iteration of the thread) from named individuals claiming to be aroused.

Did you not see the selfie-video (Tik-tok IIRC) of the TIM wanking outside the ladies toilets, or are you just pretending @Rolfe never posted the link.
It was depraved, disgusting and the ultimate misogynistic flex. As I said earlier, when they show exactly who they are, believe them!