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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

A trans-identifying man with whom my best friend is on best buddies terms (and who is an elected city councillor) showed up to stand shoulder to shoulder with a group of trans activists who were yelling "◊◊◊◊ you" at women going into a conference to discuss violence against women. The objection being, apparently, that no men of any description were permitted to attend.

The mindset is that there must be no circumstances at all where women are allowed to exclude men, particularly men who say they're women. It was absolutely disgusting, and from an elected representative, too. I don't know what it will take for my friend to realise the sort of person she's associating with. She too starry-eyed about how "kind" she's being. We just don't talk about it. But I can see quite plainly that he's blatantly using her to validate his live-action autogynaephilic role-play fetish
 
Some people think they’re above the law. There are the cocky scrotes who hop Tube barriers, the dog owners who let their beasts defecate freely, safe in the knowledge that no one dares object with a snarling set of teeth at the end of the lead. And then there are Britain’s public institutions, openly flouting the Supreme Court’s ruling on single-sex spaces.

To tackle this epidemic of institutional lawbreaking, Sir Keir Starmer tried a Robert Jenrick-style intervention yesterday, placing a metaphorical hand on the shoulder of British workplaces and urging them to get on with kicking men out of the Ladies’ loos, “as soon as possible”. The government, he announced, had accepted the ruling, and “everything else flows from that”.
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Why is the Supreme Court’s gender ruling still being ignored?
 
Graham2001 said:
Why is the Supreme Court’s gender ruling still being ignored?
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One one level, the "why" is rather simple. The British government is corrupt, anti-democratic, and hostile to voters. We see other manifestations of that as well, such as the suppression of free speech and the coverup of rape gangs. The why of that rot is a bit more complex, though, and I think a function of a lot of converging influences. Probably not the thread to really delve into it.
 
Ziggurat said:
That's not well put, that's a stupid tautology. There's no VKEXL without the L. There's no QEPOZ without the Z. All true statements, none of which matter.

Without the T, then LGBT becomes LGB. Which is what it used to be. The LGB movement made its biggest gains before T joined in, they can manage just fine if the T gets dropped.
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It was always strange to me that the 't' was joined with the 'lgb', as they aint fighting for the same things. The t wants to conform to societal gender roles whereas the lgb was about ◊◊◊◊ societal gender roles i shall be myself thank you very much.
 
Emily's Cat said:
I have doubts about your claim. I'm a mere five years younger than you... and at no point in my childhood did "boy" mean a child who wore trousers, liked toy cars and guns, and played cowboys & indians with the other kids at recess. If it had, I would have been consistently called a "boy" when I was a wee kid. But I wasn't, despite my penchant for math and science and climbing trees. Because the words "boy" and "girl" and "man" and "woman" have been consistently understood for both of our entire lives to refer to sex.
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Did you ever get called a tomboy?
 
Emily's Cat said:
Absolutely, incontrovertibly no. This is entirely wrong.
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Which developmental path were CAIS individuals on in utero? So far as can tell, they were predetermined never to produce any gametes from the jump, typically due to a mutation in the AR gene.
d4m10n said:
For purposes of public policy...are you entirely comfortable with treating CAIS individuals on one end of that scale as males?
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Just pinging @Emily's Cat on this in case this question was missed earlier. It seems pretty important if you are going to maintain (contra Novella) that every individual can readily be sorted into male or female.
Emily's Cat said:
Go hang out with Steersman on this.
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Alas, I have him blocked for repeatedly going to the man instead of the argument.

(I must concede, though, that this is a less appropriate thread than that one.)
Emily's Cat said:
First off, saying "sex is an idea we use to describe the world" is about as useful as saying "gravity is an idea which we use to describe the world".
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Decades ago I took a degree in physics, and discovered that not only is universal gravitation an idea we use to describe the world, but also that the theory has been greatly complexified since Newton and even since Einstein. Similarly, "sex" is much more complex than the famous quote from Kindergarten Cop or even the genetic model taught in high school, and Novella is not wrong to educate his readers on the complexities. The only detail that he arguably got wrong is the part about ovotestes—we've yet to see an individual produce both gametes.
 
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d4m10n said:
Decades ago I took a degree in physics, and discovered that not only is universal gravitation an idea we use to describe the world, but also that the theory has been greatly complexified since Newton and even since Einstein. Similarly, "sex" is much more complex than the famous quote from Kindergarten Cop or even the genetic model taught in high school, and Novella is not wrong to educate his readers on the complexities.
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I understand the distinction you're trying to make quite well. But he's not actually educating his readers. He is obfuscating.
 
p0lka said:
It was always strange to me that the 't' was joined with the 'lgb', as they aint fighting for the same things. The t wants to conform to societal gender roles whereas the lgb was about ◊◊◊◊ societal gender roles i shall be myself thank you very much.
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Speaking from a UK perspective - back to when gay pubs first started to be gay pubs they were the only places someone "cross dressing" could cross dress in public and not be abused, so they were always there, sharing the abuse that gay men and lesbians received. Always been welcome bed fellows - so to speak. The first protest march I went on - think it was 1985 - there was a small number of "T"s with us gays and lesbians, and they were treated equally, down to being spat on by the police.
 
Darat said:
Speaking from a UK perspective - back to when gay pubs first started to be gay pubs they were the only places someone "cross dressing" could cross dress in public and not be abused, so they were always there, sharing the abuse that gay men and lesbians received. Always been welcome bed fellows - so to speak. The first protest march I went on - think it was 1985 - there was a small number of "T"s with us gays and lesbians, and they were treated equally, down to being spat on by the police.
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And that made sense, and was largely unobjectionable, as long as the issue was legalizing gender-queer expression, and not overriding sex segregation on demand.
 
p0lka said:
It was always strange to me that the 't' was joined with the 'lgb', as they aint fighting for the same things. The t wants to conform to societal gender roles whereas the lgb was about ◊◊◊◊ societal gender roles i shall be myself thank you very much.
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Way way back in the before time, the "T" meant "transsexual" not "transgender". At that point in time, there was a considerable amount of medical gate-keeping involved in any open transsexualism. At that point, the T was pretty much exclusively comprised of very, very, very homosexual males - Kinsey 6 gay, if you will. In somewhat crass terms, males that were so extremely gay that they desperately wanted to be female so that they'd be even more attractive to males. To some extent, that sort of made sense to include with the LGB - they were G after all, just G with a penchant for female presentation. Of course, they also tended to present like normal average females instead of the pornified bimbo look that many of the current transgender cohort seems to gravitate to.

Currently, however, the TQWTAF+ has nothing at all in common with the LGB.
 
d4m10n said:
Which developmental path were CAIS individuals on in utero? So far as can tell, they were predetermined never to produce any gametes from the jump, typically due to a mutation in the AR gene.
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They still develop a reproductive system, even if it is infertile. CAIS - assuming it's actually C - end up following a mullerian pathway with the exception of their gonads still developing as sterile testicular material rather than ovarian.

Also, why did you decide to snip out the following paragraph, where this was explained more fully?

Emily's Cat said:
If a fetus doesn't at least begin the process of sexual differentiation, they will terminate. Sex is a *required* developmental aspect, similar to brains or lungs. If a fetus doesn't have a reproductive system, it is not viable. It can be an incompletely developed system, it can be a system with problems, but it absolutely must be present. And the fetus absolutely has to trigger the differentiation process, even if it doesn't complete the process.
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d4m10n said:
Decades ago I took a degree in physics, and discovered that not only is universal gravitation an idea we use to describe the world, but also that the theory has been greatly complexified since Newton and even since Einstein. Similarly, "sex" is much more complex than the famous quote from Kindergarten Cop or even the genetic model taught in high school, and Novella is not wrong to educate his readers on the complexities. The only detail that he arguably got wrong is the part about ovotestes—we've yet to see an individual produce both gametes.
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Computers are really complex; you have assembly language, interpreters & compilers, operating systems, and instruction set architecture (reduced and complex). But at the core of that complexity, you have a binary system, the numerical system of 0's and 1's without which none of it works. No 0/1 binary, no computers.

Similarly, sex in humans (and all mammals in fact) is a very complicated thing too, but like the modern computer, at its core is the male/female binary. Every individual, with a minuscule number of exceptions, can be classified as one of the two binaries No male/female binary - no sex.
 
The Department of Education has announced that the University of Pennsylvania has agreed to resolve Title IX violations related to allowing transgender swimmer Lia Thomas to compete on the women's team during the 2021-22 season.

As part of the resolution deal, UPenn will adopt definitions for male and female consistent with biological sex; restore stolen records and titles to female athletes; and, issue personal apologies to each impacted female swimmer.

www.ed.gov

U.S. Department of Education Announces the University of Pennsylvania Has Entered into a Resolution Agreement to Resolve its Title IX Violations

Today, the U.S. Department of Education (the Department) announced the University of Pennsylvania (UPenn) has entered into a Resolution Agreement to comply with Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972 (Title IX).
www.ed.gov www.ed.gov
 
Matthew Best said:
As part of the resolution deal, UPenn will adopt definitions for male and female consistent with biological sex; restore stolen records and titles to female athletes; and, issue personal apologies to each impacted female swimmer.

www.ed.gov

U.S. Department of Education Announces the University of Pennsylvania Has Entered into a Resolution Agreement to Resolve its Title IX Violations

Today, the U.S. Department of Education (the Department) announced the University of Pennsylvania (UPenn) has entered into a Resolution Agreement to comply with Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972 (Title IX).
www.ed.gov www.ed.gov
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Excellent.
However, what is really needed is for Title IX to have these definitions enshrined so that ANY educational establishments that attempt to emulate what UPenn did aoutmatically violate Title IX - and no investigation needed.
 
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