Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

[Stacyhs]

notandum: It's a bit rich giving it large about how Guede was involved in a drugs-related dispute aged 15, when he was stabbed, when all along Knox was consorting with a drug smuggler, whom I believe received a VERY substantial prison sentence for cocaine smuggling. (30 years?) In addition, Frederico the cocaine smuggler gave Knox herpes, I see mentioned..

She spent a day and evening with him in Florence before ever arriving in Perugia. But, according to you, she must have known he was a drug dealer (not 'smuggler' no matter how many times you use that word) because, ya know, I'm sure drug dealers always reveal that to girls they've just met.

Federico: Hi, I'm Federico.

Amanda: Hi. I'm Amanda.

Federico: Are you American?

Amanda: Yes, I'm going to Perugia to study Italian. Are you a student, too?

Federico: No, I'm a major drug dealer.

I am not judgmental but why was Knox mixing with such unsavoury characters?

How stressful it must have been for poor Mez.

Yeah, Knox was bringing home all those drug dealers and forcing "poor Mez" to be around them as she (didn't) complain about to her British girlfriends. She didn't seem to be too stressed about sleeping with a guy who grew five weed plants in his apartment downstairs which she watered for him, though.

 

[SpitfireIX]

Of course there is evidence. Bongiorno is from Sicily were politicians were traditionally elected to represent the well-established mafia families there. She was brought up in the mafia culture and proud of it. They say you can determine who you worship by whatever is at the forefront of your mind. Bongiorno is a self-professed Andreotti fan. She acquired his office and sits at his desk. She doesn't hide it!

Ah, so now every politician from Sicily is in the Mafia. As for the rest, a) you have no real evidence, and b) being a fan of Andreotti's doesn't mean she's connected with the Mafia, especially as, as I discussed, and you ignored as usual, Andreotti disavowed any early associations he might have had with his local Mafia when they turned violent.

 

[Stacyhs]

Ah, so now every politician from Sicily is in the Mafia. As for the rest, a) you have no real evidence, and b) being a fan of Andreotti's doesn't mean she's connected with the Mafia, especially as, as I discussed, and you ignored as usual, Andreotti disavowed any early associations he might have had with his local Mafia when they turned violent.

Every politician, judge, lawyer, expert, witness, etch is somehow bent according to Vixen if they don't support her narrative.

 

[SpitfireIX]

Rockyco Sollecito of the Canadian Mafia was from the Sollecito family of Bari.

Wow, that's some really strong, credible evidence you've got there, Vixen. Someone with the same last name who happens to have been born in the same province. And even if they are distantly related to Rocco [ETA: which they probably are, if you go back far enough], how does that prove that Raffaele and his immediate family are connected with the Mafia?

 

[SpitfireIX]

And, Vixen, I renew my question, which you've avoided several times. How did Vanessa get to become a lieutenant in the Carabinieri if she was from a Mafia family?

 

[SpitfireIX]

Be that as it may, Gill was not at the crime scene, he did not collect the samples and he was not present when they were analysed. Prof Torre, Italy's then leading geneticist was present as the expert witness on behalf of Sollecito, and also Patumi [_sp?] for the other testing. Gill did not see the raw data. All he had was the intellectually dishonest C&V report based in clear input from America and the Friends of Amanda Knox who misguidedly believed the case was a 'rail roading' by third world type rogue cops. In addition, Gill never appeared in court and was not cross-examined. His theory of possible contamination (for Sollecito only, not Guede), was purely hypothetical and untested. As Chieffi points out, the onus is on the claimant to specify which path the tertiary transfer of DNA is alleged to have taken place after a period of six weeks. Gill himself said secondary transfer was vanishingly unlikely after 24-hours. Yet here he is claiming it is possible after six weeks and not only secondary but tertiary...from a sterile latex glove. You know as well as I do that DNA doesn't transfer from one place to another like magic.

To add to the excellent response to your BS which Numbers has provided, @Chris_Halkides corrected your bogus 24-hour claim back in January.

Pages 71-80 of Dr. Gill's book cover fingernail DNA specifically. On pages 78-79, the period of 24 hours is mentioned. The context is that Dr. Gill is discussing the likelihood of detecting foreign fingernail DNA as a function of time after the transfer took place. After 24 hours the probability of finding foreign DNA on the fingernails of a living person is very low, probably due to hand washing or showering. The Anne Le case showed that DNA deposition could happen a long time before its transfer of DNA to underwear of a murder victim (months or years).

As usual, there are several possibilities, none of which reflect well on you. First, you could have been wearing your fact-sensitive reading glasses both when you were reading the original passage and Chris's correction. Second, you might have hoped that no one would notice if you lied. Third, and somewhat related to the first, you might have suffered that selective memory lapse to which you seem so susceptible when it comes to facts and information favorable to Amanda and Raffaele. So which was it this time, Vixen?

 

[SpitfireIX]

And tell us, Vixen, how did those two unidentified male profiles get on the bra clasp along with Raffaele's?

 

[Stacyhs]

Not when it comes to young adults, whose brains may not be fully developed until their twenties. Conflicts with parents, laziness, lying in bed, dropping out of school or job hopping are all perfectly normal for an adolescent.

That's true, but Guede's brain at almost 21 was developed enough to know wrong from right. To know lying was wrong, that stealing was wrong, and that selling stolen goods was illegal and wrong. If and when Guede is convicted of beating up and raping his girlfriend repeatedly when he was 35, what excuse will you give then?

Claiming that it is obvious Guede is a murderer/ rapist because he fell out with his adopted family is asinine.

True. it would be asinine. But I've never seen anyone claim that, including me. It takes a special kind of mentality to twist that out of stating why his foster family threw him out.

He's not a murderer because he 'fell out with his adopted family". He's a murderer because the overwhelming evidence says he is.

 

[Stacyhs]

Wow, that's some really strong, credible evidence you've got there, Vixen. Someone with the same last name who happens to have been born in the same province. And even if they are distantly related to Rocco [ETA: which they probably are, if you go back far enough], how does that prove that Raffaele and his immediate family are connected with the Mafia?

Vixen forgot to mention a 2013 photo of RS lying on a beach in the Dom. Republic with some friends. She also presented that photo as evidence that he is mafia-friendly because the DR is known to have mafia connections.

TJMK has pushed this "mafia connection" for years.

 

[Vixen]

LOL! They print what the police and prosecution claim; they do NOT verify the accuracy of claims made by the police.


I previously provided several links to UK newpaper articles (BBC and The Telegraph) describing him as a drug-dealer already. According to you, "British news outlets do verify their news items."

1. "Drug-dealer Guede was jailed for 30 years for the sexual assault and murder of Miss Kercher after a separate fast-track trial. His sentence was reduced to 16 years on appeal."

2. "Small-time drug dealer Guede fled to Germany but was extradited to Italy. "

3. "Guede, a drug dealer from the Ivory Coast, has admitted being present at Miss Kercher's cottage on the night of the murder but denied involvement."

4. "Only one person was definitively convicted of the murder of Kercher – Rudy Guede, a small-time drug dealer born in the Ivory Coast who lived in Perugia."

5. "Prosecutors said it was the result of a four-way sex game in which Miss Knox, Mr Sollecito and Rudy Guede, a small-time drug dealer from Perugia of Ivory Coast origin,"

When you just make crap up to suit whatever is needed at the time, you invariably get caught out.

No evidence of her ever "consorting" with these "unsavory characters" was ever produced. No narcotics (other than weed) was found in her hair test (which you've attempted to discredit, unsuccessfully, before), and no witnesses or phone contacts show her consorting with drug dealers or other 'unsavory characters'. What's shocking is your blatant dishonesty.

Did you not understand that all of those news reports you cite come from the same news agency? So of course they all say the same thing? Without looking it up I am going to suggest it is fan girl Colleen Barry of AP News behind it.

 

[Vixen]

If Gill's report was never entered into evidence, then exactly how did it influence the courts?

When Hellmann referenced Gill and other forensic experts, he was referencing their publications: " (Gill P. et al., 2000; Whitaker J.P. et al., 2001; Kloosterman A.D. et al., 2003; Smith P.J., Ballantyne J., 2007; Forster L. et al., 2008; Budowle B. et al., 2009)" and " (Gill P. et al., 2000; Gill P., 2001; Gill P. et al., 2007)" Or do you think published scientific works should only be allowed when the author(s) can be cross-examined in court?


LOL! You only make that accusation because they tore apart the prosecution case on the knife and bra hook. If they'd agreed with Stefanoni, you'd be praising their genius. Just WHY do you think two experts from Rome who had NO previous connection to the case and didn't know either defendant would advocate for them? Wait....I forgot: they're both 'bent'!

LOL! As I quoted and cited earlier to you, Vecchiotti was later acquitted of those charges of "gross negligence" ...which per your usual, you ignore. The rest of your comment is just more of your wild imagination working overtime.


Nonsense. You've made this unsubstantiated claim before and it's just more of your crazy exaggeration and spin. this is what Candace Dempsey said about it:


There is NO evidence that C&V were working for the defense or making or giving them DVD's. If what you claim were true, it would be a criminal act, and they would have been arrested and charged. It would have discredited them and their report so no way would Mignini have not charged them. Use some common sense for once.


So now Hellmann is not only corrupt, he hired C&V to work for the defense to get AK and RS off. LOL!
Evidence that Hellmann had "to haul C&V before him to explain themselves,"? There are no court record I've found supporting your claim.


PRESENT EVIDENCE OF ANY OF THE ABOVE. You've been caught red-handed making so many false claims that taking just your word for any of the above isn't even remotely possible.

As has been explained, Bongiorno took Gill's multi-page report to the Fifth Chambers Supreme Court Appeal hearing, in which each counsel was instructed they had twenty minutes each to present their skeleton arguments to the panel. As already explained, a skeleton argument on paper should be no longer than one page of A4 or two sides, at the outside. Bongiorno spent two and a half days presenting her case to the court. Bruno was once charged with mafia connections. So, surprise, surprise, the family stuck together, so to speak, and fixed it for the Sollecitos of Bari. You can't see anything amiss with this because you don't understand how fairness in law works. It should mean each party is given the same amount of time to present their skeleton argument in respect of the appeal hearing to the panel of judges. If you cannot see it is unfair that one party got an incredible two whole days and presented a multi-page report by someone not even a witness at the trials/appeals, when the other parties each had a strict twenty-minute time limit to speak and submit a proper skeleton of just one A4 page (double spaced), then you really do not comprehend the meaning of justice needing to be seen to be a level playing field for all parties.

 

[Vixen]

If Gill's report was never entered into evidence, then exactly how did it influence the courts?

When Hellmann referenced Gill and other forensic experts, he was referencing their publications: " (Gill P. et al., 2000; Whitaker J.P. et al., 2001; Kloosterman A.D. et al., 2003; Smith P.J., Ballantyne J., 2007; Forster L. et al., 2008; Budowle B. et al., 2009)" and " (Gill P. et al., 2000; Gill P., 2001; Gill P. et al., 2007)" Or do you think published scientific works should only be allowed when the author(s) can be cross-examined in court?


LOL! You only make that accusation because they tore apart the prosecution case on the knife and bra hook. If they'd agreed with Stefanoni, you'd be praising their genius. Just WHY do you think two experts from Rome who had NO previous connection to the case and didn't know either defendant would advocate for them? Wait....I forgot: they're both 'bent'!

LOL! As I quoted and cited earlier to you, Vecchiotti was later acquitted of those charges of "gross negligence" ...which per your usual, you ignore. The rest of your comment is just more of your wild imagination working overtime.


Nonsense. You've made this unsubstantiated claim before and it's just more of your crazy exaggeration and spin. this is what Candace Dempsey said about it:


There is NO evidence that C&V were working for the defense or making or giving them DVD's. If what you claim were true, it would be a criminal act, and they would have been arrested and charged. It would have discredited them and their report so no way would Mignini have not charged them. Use some common sense for once.


So now Hellmann is not only corrupt, he hired C&V to work for the defense to get AK and RS off. LOL!
Evidence that Hellmann had "to haul C&V before him to explain themselves,"? There are no court record I've found supporting your claim.


PRESENT EVIDENCE OF ANY OF THE ABOVE. You've been caught red-handed making so many false claims that taking just your word for any of the above isn't even remotely possible.

It was the Seattle PSI influencer or whatever it is called. It has been discussed before if you do a 'search' for the article in question.

 

[Vixen]

Ahem...these were claims made by the police that were never substantiated. Nor was Knox ever charged with any of the above.
As previously pointed out, Knox's phone logs are available and no such calls are noted.

If that 2008 report were true, then why was her alleged association with the drug dealer or dealerS never brought up in ANY of her trials?

The Irish Independent was just reporting what the police claimed, not their validity.

Police and the media made many claims that later proved to be false.

If it was in the police evidence files then they clearly had the phone logs, the name of the drug smuggler and Knox' bank records. The fact it was not included in the evidence list for the trial simply means it wasn't considered relevant to the case in hand.

 

[Vixen]

That's true, but Guede's brain at almost 21 was developed enough to know wrong from right. To know lying was wrong, that stealing was wrong, and that selling stolen goods was illegal and wrong. If and when Guede is convicted of beating up and raping his girlfriend repeatedly when he was 35, what excuse will you give then?


True. it would be asinine. But I've never seen anyone claim that, including me. It takes a special kind of mentality to twist that out of stating why his foster family threw him out.

He's not a murderer because he 'fell out with his adopted family". He's a murderer because the overwhelming evidence says he is.

Yes and look who covered up for him by trying to pin the crime on Lumumba. Knox introduced this shady character into Mez's safe space.

 

[Vixen]

View attachment 62065

Verbal abuse is all you have.

 

[Vixen]

She spent a day and evening with him in Florence before ever arriving in Perugia. But, according to you, she must have known he was a drug dealer (not 'smuggler' no matter how many times you use that word) because, ya know, I'm sure drug dealers always reveal that to girls they've just met.

Federico: Hi, I'm Federico.

Amanda: Hi. I'm Amanda.

Federico: Are you American?

Amanda: Yes, I'm going to Perugia to study Italian. Are you a student, too?

Federico: No, I'm a major drug dealer.






Yeah, Knox was bringing home all those drug dealers and forcing "poor Mez" to be around them as she (didn't) complain about to her British girlfriends. She didn't seem to be too stressed about sleeping with a guy who grew five weed plants in his apartment downstairs which she watered for him, though.

Here come the tu quoque logical fallacies again. Knox consorted with at least two drug smugglers together with Guede the burglar, thief and drug dealer and in your mind this is no different from Mez being in a relationship with Silenzi, the guy downstairs.

 

[Vixen]

Wow, that's some really strong, credible evidence you've got there, Vixen. Someone with the same last name who happens to have been born in the same province. And even if they are distantly related to Rocco [ETA: which they probably are, if you go back far enough], how does that prove that Raffaele and his immediate family are connected with the Mafia?

He was known as the urologist to the Dons. He was wiretapped saying money could make water flow up hill. Of course, nobody is openly going to claim fraternity with the mafia but given the duo were found guilty at each of the merits hearings, don't you think it's a bit dodgy that C&V were suddenly back in favour at the Fifth Chambers, having been struck out by the First Chamber. One Supreme Court chamber cannot pull rank over another. In addition, the coincidence of the pair being acquitted under the same loophole get-out-clause as Andreotti & Berlusconi, the common link between the three cases being Bongiorno?

 

[Vixen]

And, Vixen, I renew my question, which you've avoided several times. How did Vanessa get to become a lieutenant in the Carabinieri if she was from a Mafia family?

Strange question.

 

[TruthCalls]

If it was in the police evidence files then they clearly had the phone logs, the name of the drug smuggler and Knox' bank records. The fact it was not included in the evidence list for the trial simply means it wasn't considered relevant to the case in hand.

Guess what, we also have her phone logs and bank records, and based on those records we KNOW these claims are bogus, and THAT'S why none of them made it to any trial.

Involvement with drug dealers, burning through cash.. if these claims were valid, and evidence existed that proved it, it absolutely would have been introduced at trial. It would go towards motive, and speak to the character of the accused.

Baseless accusations, and you embrace them unequivocally even though you know - because you have the documents - that there is no evidence to support it. You then double down, suggesting there is evidence but it wasn't considered relevant, an obviously ridiculous suggestion. This is hardly the thought process of someone who is impartial, neutral and entirely objective.

 

[Disbelief]

Not when it comes to young adults, whose brains may not be fully developed until their twenties. Conflicts with parents, laziness, lying in bed, dropping out of school or job hopping are all perfectly normal for an adolescent. Claiming that it is obvious Guede is a murderer/ rapist because he fell out with his adopted family is asinine.

He's a murderer/rapist because that's what he was convicted of being. Of course, your reading comprehension for what was stated is way off.