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Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

Why the heck is anyone still indulging this ignorance, scientific illiteracy and nonsense??


I can't speak for anyone else here, but I hate it when anyone lies about being objective, even though it does encourage them to keep spewing more of their garbage, and for that I sincerely do apologize.

Although, (no insult intended Numbers) it is a welcome break from a steady diet of Number's ECHR explanations and news breaks, and besides, guilters are unintentionally funny as hell, even though it's all based on hate.


ETA: I also have to apologize for the use of the term, "funny as hell." It doesn't really make any sense except in my own demented mind.


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Just discovered this little snippet in the Irish Independent, Thu 3 Jul 2014 at 22:12
Amanda Knox ‘phone, sex and cash links to Italian cocaine dealer’ to be used against her in extradition bid
Italian prosecutors pushing for Amanda Knox’s extradition from the US claim they have evidence of her extensive links to cocaine dealers in Perugia, it has been reported.
Police in the Italian city where the British student Meredith Kercher was murdered have reportedly already convicted one man for dealing cocaine based on information from the American’s phone. They say that details from Knox’s file show she had phone conversations with a known drug dealer before and after Ms Kercher’s death, was getting through cash at an alarmingly fast rate and had an alleged “relationship of a sexual nature” with the supplier.
<snip>
The police report attached to Knox’s file reportedly stated that: “In the course of the investigation regarding the criminal proceedings 9066/07 [Kercher’s murder] they discovered that an Italian person from time to time replenished Amanda Knox’s narcotic substances, as well as having allegedly had with her the relationship of a sexual nature.”

Well, well. So one of the posters here was misled when they said there were no phone calls logged between the dealer and Knox.
 
notandum: It's a bit rich giving it large about how Guede was involved in a drugs-related dispute aged 15, when he was stabbed, when all along Knox was consorting with a drug smuggler, whom I believe received a VERY substantial prison sentence for cocaine smuggling. (30 years?) In addition, Frederico the cocaine smuggler gave Knox herpes, I see mentioned.. I am not judgmental but why was Knox mixing with such unsavoury characters? How stressful it must have been for poor Mez.
 
Just discovered this little snippet in the Irish Independent, Thu 3 Jul 2014 at 22:12

<snip>
The police report attached to Knox’s file reportedly stated that: “In the course of the investigation regarding the criminal proceedings 9066/07 [Kercher’s murder] they discovered that an Italian person from time to time replenished Amanda Knox’s narcotic substances, as well as having allegedly had with her the relationship of a sexual nature.”

Well, well. So one of the posters here was misled when they said there were no phone calls logged between the dealer and Knox.
And yet, here we are, eleven years after this article was written, and no evidence of any of this has ever been shown to exist.

I would also remind you that most of us have Amanda's phone logs for the time she was in Italy, and there is no entries involving him. You claim to be impartial, neutral and entirely objective, and I know you have Amanda's phone logs, so here's your chance. You think this is a true account, so surely you've reviewed her phone logs and found the repeated connections between these two. Please share the date/time for each of these as I apparently missed them.

And since you were so impressed with the Irish Independent article, perhaps you can cite evidence to support these baseless claims from the article;

- "...they have evidence of her extensive links to cocaine dealers in Perugia" (note the plural "dealers")
- "...already convicted one man for dealing cocaine based on information from the American’s phone."
- "...from Knox’s file show she had phone conversations with a known drug dealer before and after Ms Kercher’s death"
- "...was getting through cash at an alarmingly fast rate"
- "...had an alleged “relationship of a sexual nature” with the supplier."

There is zero evidence to support any of these accusations from the article, yet you treat it like it's gospel. Hardly what I would expect from someone who claims to be "impartial, neutral and entirely objective".
 
And yet, here we are, eleven years after this article was written, and no evidence of any of this has ever been shown to exist.

I would also remind you that most of us have Amanda's phone logs for the time she was in Italy, and there is no entries involving him. You claim to be impartial, neutral and entirely objective, and I know you have Amanda's phone logs, so here's your chance. You think this is a true account, so surely you've reviewed her phone logs and found the repeated connections between these two. Please share the date/time for each of these as I apparently missed them.

And since you were so impressed with the Irish Independent article, perhaps you can cite evidence to support these baseless claims from the article;

- "...they have evidence of her extensive links to cocaine dealers in Perugia" (note the plural "dealers")
- "...already convicted one man for dealing cocaine based on information from the American’s phone."
- "...from Knox’s file show she had phone conversations with a known drug dealer before and after Ms Kercher’s death"
- "...was getting through cash at an alarmingly fast rate"
- "...had an alleged “relationship of a sexual nature” with the supplier."

There is zero evidence to support any of these accusations from the article, yet you treat it like it's gospel. Hardly what I would expect from someone who claims to be "impartial, neutral and entirely objective".

British news outlets do verify their news items. That would have been the situation Irish Independent (OK so it is not British but Ireland has extremely good quality newspapers) would have been informed of as of the time. If you are going to call Guede a drug dealer and burglar without any substantiation, it follows that what is sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose. You can't slag off Guede for having been in a drugs dispute aged 15, when Knox herself was consorting with very serious criminals. This isn't a tit-for-tat issue. The incredible danger Mez was put in by Knox consorting with such unsavoury characters. It is just shocking that she had to be subjected to this.
 
British news outlets do verify their news items. That would have been the situation Irish Independent (OK so it is not British but Ireland has extremely good quality newspapers) would have been informed of as of the time. If you are going to call Guede a drug dealer and burglar without any substantiation, it follows that what is sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose. You can't slag off Guede for having been in a drugs dispute aged 15, when Knox herself was consorting with very serious criminals. This isn't a tit-for-tat issue. The incredible danger Mez was put in by Knox consorting with such unsavoury characters. It is just shocking that she had to be subjected to this.
I asked you to cite evidence to back any of this and you reply that British news outlets do verify their news items? No, that isn't going to cut it. As I said, we ALL have Amanda's phone logs, so we KNOW it's a blatant lie to claim she had "phone conversations with a known drug dealer before and after Ms Kercher’s death". I asked for evidence to support ANY of these baseless claims, and unsurprisingly, you can't and so you deflect.

I have never called Guede a drug dealer, nor has he ever been convicted of such. I do refer to him as a burglar because he was definitively caught inside the school, and had stolen property in his backpack. This alone proves he's a burglar. Tramontano and his girlfriend had no motive to implicate him, they merely reported what they BOTH saw that night. And we know the law office was burglarized and Guede was in possession of what was stolen. The cottage also appeared broken into and Guede was, again, proven to be there. I realize you like to defend Guede, and admitting he was a burglar hurts your narrative, but it sure wouldn't kill you (I don't think) to be honest at least once.

Can you offer a shred of evidence of Amanda "consorting with such unsavory characters" other than an article in the Irish Independent from eleven years ago, an article proven to contain blatant lies?
 
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An academic is not the same as a specialist technician. A friend of mine had a first class honours degree in Chemistry. It got her entry into the police forensic division. But her qualifications were zippo until she trained and qualified as a forensic scientist. It's all very well Dr Peter Gill sitting in his ivory tower pontificating on the theoretical possibilities of contamination (as if forensic scientists aren't trained in this!) which has a place in exchanging ideas with fellow academics. In the meantime TRAINED forensic scientists (who were academical at entry level) are highly qualified and highly selected for a highly sought after position. Your claim that academics sitting in universities are better at forensics than trained forensic police technicians who have on-the-job experience is an incredibly immature perspective. And an ignorant one too, so please stop with your personal rankings, which are not like-for-like and false equivalents.
Your bizarre comments suggest a need for some reference to the real world. Peter Gill was one of the inventors and developers, with Alec Jeffreys and Dave Werrett, of DNA profiling technology. Alec Jeffreys was the leader of those efforts at his lab at the University of Leicester. Jeffreys was knighted for these and other efforts in genetics in 1994. Gill also went on to further develop DNA profiling methods; he was the first to develop the methods to separate sperm DNA from epithelial DNA so that rapists could be identified by their DNA. He is also a pioneer in low template (low copy number) DNA profiling and the analysis of DNA mixtures. People such as Jeffreys and Gill were hardly isolated in an ivory tower; they developed the techniques used by DNA profile technicians, who are trained to follow procedures based upon those techniques.

So your stating that Gill is "sitting in his ivory tower pontificating" is an especially absurd statement. Gill knows DNA profiling; your posts do not show any significant understanding of DNA profiling. The technicians, such as Stefanoni, follow the procedures developed by the researchers such as Gill and many others.

Sources:
 
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I asked you to cite evidence to back any of this and you reply that British news outlets do verify their news items? No, that isn't going to cut it. As I said, we ALL have Amanda's phone logs, so we KNOW it's a blatant lie to claim she had "phone conversations with a known drug dealer before and after Ms Kercher’s death". I asked for evidence to support ANY of these baseless claims, and unsurprisingly, you can't and so you deflect.

I have never called Guede a drug dealer, nor has he ever been convicted of such. I do refer to him as a burglar because he was definitively caught inside the school, and had stolen property in his backpack. This alone proves he's a burglar. Tramontano and his girlfriend had no motive to implicate him, they merely reported what they BOTH saw that night. And we know the law office was burglarized and Guede was in possession of what was stolen. The cottage also appeared broken into and Guede was, again, proven to be there. I realize you like to defend Guede, and admitting he was a burglar hurts your narrative, but it sure wouldn't kill you (I don't think) to be honest at least once.

Can you offer a shred of evidence of Amanda "consorting with such unsavory characters" other than an article in the Irish Independent from eleven years ago, an article proven to contain blatant lies?
The issue of whether or not Guede was an unsavoury character is a complete deflection The point is, Knox chose him and Sollecito as her flying monkeys, according to the trial evidence, which was upheld by Massei and Nencini after having heard all of the evidence. Bongiorno got the pair off by fair means or foul but not based on any evidence that came out of the trial, just some garbled nonsense that the forensic police's sterile latex gloves might have transfered Sollecito's full DNA profile onto Mez' bra-clasp. That doesn't make Sollecito and Knox heroes. If you want to solve a crime you have to look at the nature of the crime. When you do this, it is apparent that it was not a bog standard burglary or theft at all. The average burglar or thief doesn't cross over to sadistic killer and rapist; that is a different crime all together. It was obvious to the police and the detectives that here was a long-drawn out torture and hazing of a young 21-year-old student away from home, subjected to the gravest depravity of being hazed by a knife point (thirteen knife point jabs), her dignity and modesty ripped away from her by an act of cruel undressing. Zero to few defence wounds indicate being forcibly restrained whilst the torture was ongoing. This was a group of people having fun. Where do we see a history of enjoying hazing people? Not in a burglar, drug dealer or thief. We see several reports from Knox' own peers in Washington of her penchant for what she calls 'pranks' - they call it distressing bullying - and short stories describing exactly what happened to Mez. This was not a theft or a burglary, it was a sadistic cold blooded murder performed for the pleasure of a deeply disturbed and controlling set of individuals. Yes, two were young adults, the other, a fully grown 23-year-old man - described by the prosecutor as 'icy cold' - was adult enough to know it was wrong and to have called the whole thing to a halt when it got out of hand, but instead let it continue to its grisly end. Then we had the theatre of the staged burglary and positioning of the body to make it look like a stranger killing. Mignini was absolutely right when he described Knox as manipulative, narcissistic and transgressive. She has kept up the facade all the way through knowing that her fans would never believe a young woman like herself would ever torture and stab her own roommate in the throat in such a cruel and deeply despicable crime. So, yes, you keep up with the 'it was a burglar who did it and Guede was the burglar' and I'll go with what the evidence proven in court shows,
 
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Your bizarre comments suggest a need for some reference to the real world. Peter Gill was one of the inventors and developers, with Alec Jeffreys and Dave Werrett, of DNA profiling technology. Alec Jeffreys was the leader of those efforts at his lab at the University of Leicester. Jeffreys was knighted for these and other efforts in genetics in 1994. Gill also went on to further develop DNA profiling methods; he was the first to develop the methods to separate sperm DNA from epithelial DNA so that rapists could be identified by their DNA. He is also a pioneer in low template (low copy number) DNA profiling and the analysis of DNA mixtures. People such as Jeffreys and Gill were hardly isolated in an ivory tower; they developed the techniques used by DNA profile technicians, who are trained to follow procedures based upon those techniques.

So your stating that Gill is "sitting in his ivory tower pontificating" is an especially absurd statement. Gill knows DNA profiling; your posts do not show any significant understanding of DNA profiling. The technicians, such as Stefanoni, follow the procedures developed by the researchers such as Gill and many others.

Sources:
Be that as it may, Gill was not at the crime scene, he did not collect the samples and he was not present when they were analysed. Prof Torre, Italy's then leading geneticist was present as the expert witness on behalf of Sollecito, and also Patumi [_sp?] for the other testing. Gill did not see the raw data. All he had was the intellectually dishonest C&V report based in clear input from America and the Friends of Amanda Knox who misguidedly believed the case was a 'rail roading' by third world type rogue cops. In addition, Gill never appeared in court and was not cross-examined. His theory of possible contamination (for Sollecito only, not Guede), was purely hypothetical and untested. As Chieffi points out, the onus is on the claimant to specify which path the tertiary transfer of DNA is alleged to have taken place after a period of six weeks. Gill himself said secondary transfer was vanishingly unlikely after 24-hours. Yet here he is claiming it is possible after six weeks and not only secondary but tertiary...from a sterile latex glove. You know as well as I do that DNA doesn't transfer from one place to another like magic.
 
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Guede was never charged with Taramantano's claimed burglary so it remains your personal conjecture.
I certainly have more grounds for believing Tramontano and his girlfriend than you do for your 'personal conjecture' that Altieri and Popovic committed perjury because the felt sorry for/ wanted to 'help out' RS and AK. Not to mention a mountain of other off the wall claims you make.

Likewise, common sense should tell you that if Guede was in possession of this lady's gold watch then it was easy enough for the police to ask her to confirm it as being hers.
I agree the police should have asked her if it was her stolen watch. But somehow and never explained, that gold watch went missing.
And if she had identified it as hers, you'd claim it didn't mean he burgled her home but was only 'in possession' of it. Just like he didn't burglarize the law office but was only in possession of the stolen items.

The fact is, he was never charged with her claimed theft and arson.
Of course he wasn't charged with it as they had no proof. Just as they couldn't prove he'd broken into the law office either. But you think it's plausible that Guede just happened to run into the actual burglar a couple hundred miles away in Milan and bought them from him.
There are thieves everywhere. There is also popular insurance fraud.
Right. Mrs. Madu Diaz, who was an hour away in another town when her house was burgled and burned down, committed insurance fraud. She really enjoyed those three years it took to make her house habitable again.
Your 'strong suspicion' it was Guede because he lived nearby is irrational because Sollecito also lived nearby.
Well, that's quite the spin on what I actually said which was: "... he lived next door, she had a woman's gold watch stolen, he was caught with a woman's gold watch when he had no means of buying one, and he is a proven thief."
What Sollecito did NOT share was being broke, caught with valuable stolen objects, trespassing into a business where he stole a large knife, or a reputation for being a thief as reported by a friend, etc.
 
Be that as it may, Gill was not at the crime scene, he did not collect the samples and he was not present when they were analysed. Prof Torre, Italy's then leading geneticist was present as the expert witness on behalf of Sollecito, and also Patumi [_sp?] for the other testing. Gill did not see the raw data. All he had was the intellectually dishonest C&V report based in clear input from America and the Friends of Amanda Knox who misguidedly believed the case was a 'rail roading' by third world type rogue cops. In addition, Gill never appeared in court and was not cross-examined. His theory of possible contamination (for Sollecito only, not Guede), was purely hypothetical and untested. As Chieffi points out, the onus is on the claimant to specify which path the tertiary transfer of DNA is alleged to have taken place after a period of six weeks. Gill himself said secondary transfer was vanishingly unlikely after 24-hours. Yet here he is claiming it is possible after six weeks and not only secondary but tertiary...from a sterile latex glove. You know as well as I do that DNA doesn't transfer from one place to another like magic.
Vixen, your post is a remarkable collection of nonsensical and/or false statements. Here are a few issues with or corrections to your post:

1. Gill did not see the raw data. In fact, no one except Stefanoni or other prosecution or scientific police personnel has ever seen the raw data. The raw data consists of the electronic records automatically collected and stored during the testing. The defense and C&V requested that data, but Stefanoni refused to provide it and no judge required her to provide it, although the defense was legally entitled to see it.

2. The C&V report was not intellectually dishonest and it was based entirely on well-accepted forensic science and DNA profiling science principles as applied to Stefanoni's available paper records (including lab reports and analytical reports) of her testing and her testimony. C&V also based their report on the known issues of sample collection, which were known from police records, the testimony of the police, and the videos that the police had made during their collection activities.

3. The Chieffi CSC panel MR commentary on the need to identify contamination source or path is a violation of the Italian Constitution, Article 27. The principle of presumption of innocence - that an accused is innocent until finally convicted applies; that means the prosecution must prove that its testing was done properly and that there was no contamination. The path or exact means of contamination is not relevant. This principle of the presumption of innocence also applies from the European Convention of Human Rights, Article 6.2.

4. The latex gloves used to collect the bra clasp samples were visible in the video prepared by the police. The tips of those gloves were clearly dirty (the tips were dark while the remainder of the glove was white). The police personnel touched the bra clasps with the tips of their gloves, as seen in the video. The personnel handled the bra clasps excessively, placing them back on the floor and then picking them up.
 
For goodness sake, an academic is not an equivalent of a professional. For example, someone who teaches anatomy at a school, with masters and PhD's and what have you, is totally in a different category than a trained surgeon who performs surgery as his or her profession. To claim the former is superior or inferior to the other is an example of the logical fallacy of the false equivalence, based on your snobbery that an academic sitting on their arse all day is superior to someone who 'does' the actual work.
Next, you'll be claiming Conti is only an academic and wasn't really "trained" as a medical doctor.

Gill invented LCN-DNA analysis but he's not 'really' a forensic scientist.

Why do you think forensic experts are called to testify for both the prosecution and defense if they are only "academics", Vixen?

As for the mixed DNA found in Filomena's room, it is Mez' spilt blood mixed with AK's DNA and would only have mixed whilst the bodily fluids were still moist.
Why do you persist in lying? Sample #177 (and #176, only MK's DNA) tested negative for blood. That you still think that a sample can only become mixed while blood is moist reveals a profound ignorance of mixed DNA samples. At this point, that ignorance can only be willful.
Laura Mezzotti pointed out a large angry gash on Knox' neck shortly after the murder. Knox claimed it was a love bite from wimpy incel Sollecito.
LOL! Yet more of the infamous Vixen hyperbole! What did this "large angry gash" look like?

hickey.JPG
That's SOME 'large angry gash' there!

Laura's repeated use of the word "scratch" becomes "A large angry gash" only in your fevered imagination.

Dr. Lalli photographed this "large angry gash" but reported Knox had no wounds. Maybe he's 'bent', too? Was he paid off? Did he just feel sorry for Knox and want to help her out? Maybe he's mafia-friendly? Did Trump influence him? Is he only an academic?

So Knox and Mez were bleeding the same time so yes, I would say that is alllowable evidence for the court. And well done, Stefanoni!
Once again, you just make up facts to suit your own agenda while ignoring accepted forensic science facts.

Stefanoni also testified that she only needed to change gloves when touching items that were wet or obviously dirty.
With reference to the single-use gloves, Dr. Stefanoni specified that they were changed, in the course of the search, every time an object was touched that was particularly soaked with blood, and when it was obvious that the gloves would be soiled; otherwise, if it is just an ordinary object I can move it, but this does not lead to my DNA remaining, let’s say, attached. It depends on the object‛ ( Massei, p. 149)
Well done, Stefanoni! You've just revealed an astounding ignorance of basic DNA transfer contamination! Every anti-contamination protocol says gloves must be changed between handling each piece of evidence whether wet or dry. As correctly quoted from the Interpol Handbook on DNA Data Exchange and Practice – Recommendations from the Interpol DNA Monitoring Expert Group – second edition 2009 in C&V's report:

No mention of the sample being wet or dry.
 
Hampikian in his office in the USA, a Friend of Amanda Knox, donning his shining armour, his burning sword and jumping onto his stead and racing to the rescue of the damsel in distress. So many misguided do-gooders interfering in the process of justice because they believe the PR hard luck story.
The fact is, you CAN'T present evidence that mixed samples cannot be deposited at different times so instead you resort to embarrassing yourself with this kind of rubbish.
 
The issue of whether or not Guede was an unsavoury character is a complete deflection
Hardly. The cottage appeared to have been broken into, Guede was linked to multiple B&E events, and Guede was in the cottage that night. I find that very relevant when trying to determine if the break-in was real or staged.
The point is, Knox chose him and Sollecito as her flying monkeys, according to the trial evidence, which was upheld by Massei and Nencini after having heard all of the evidence.
And Massei and Nencini were both subsequently overturned. Further, Hellmann and Marasca disagree with this. So what's your point?
Bongiorno got the pair off by fair means or foul but not based on any evidence that came out of the trial, just some garbled nonsense that the forensic police's sterile latex gloves might have transfered Sollecito's full DNA profile onto Mez' bra-clasp.
A gross violation of protocols and procedures designed to minimize the risk of contamination. You're attempting to shift the burden of proof onto the defense. The prosecution has to show it followed all protocols and procedures throughout the collection and testing process. If the defense can show it failed to do this, the evidence should be disallowed, regardless of whether a clear path to contamination can be shown. In this case the visibly dirty gloves more than showed that, even though it wasn't necessary.
That doesn't make Sollecito and Knox heroes.
No one said they were.
If you want to solve a crime you have to look at the nature of the crime. When you do this, it is apparent that it was not a bog standard burglary or theft at all. The average burglar or thief doesn't cross over to sadistic killer and rapist; that is a different crime all together.
Ah, I get it. Your basic burglar or thief doesn't turn into a sadistic killer, but two young college students with no history of violence or anger... THEY can become sadistic killers. Makes sense to me.
It was obvious to the police and the detectives that here was a long-drawn out torture and hazing of a young 21-year-old student away from home, subjected to the gravest depravity of being hazed by a knife point (thirteen knife point jabs), her dignity and modesty ripped away from her by an act of cruel undressing. Zero to few defence wounds indicate being forcibly restrained whilst the torture was ongoing.
...or victim compliance with attacker demands, or immediate immobilization by the attacker such that the victim can't resist, or...
This was a group of people having fun. Where do we see a history of enjoying hazing people? Not in a burglar, drug dealer or thief. We see several reports from Knox' own peers in Washington of her penchant for what she calls 'pranks' - they call it distressing bullying - and short stories describing exactly what happened to Mez.
What unadulterated ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊. Seriously. One prank, committed by multiple roommates, on another roommate. This was a prank, not bullying.
This was not a theft or a burglary, it was a sadistic cold blooded murder performed for the pleasure of a deeply disturbed and controlling set of individuals. Yes, two were young adults, the other, a fully grown 23-year-old man - described by the prosecutor as 'icy cold' - was adult enough to know it was wrong and to have called the whole thing to a halt when it got out of hand, but instead let it continue to its grisly end.
Pure Vixen fiction, contrived in your own head, perhaps for your own pleasure? The evidence, including the injuries to Meredith, are also consistent with a burglar who gets caught by a resident coming home, and who turns violent to avoid being identified to the police.
Then we had the theatre of the staged burglary and positioning of the body to make it look like a stranger killing.
There was no evidence that proved staging of a burglary, that was just an opinion, and not a very good one. Further, there was no evidence of deliberate positioning of the body beyond how Guede left it.
Mignini was absolutely right when he described Knox as manipulative, narcissistic and transgressive.
No, he was completely wrong. There is no evidence of Amanda having any of those characteristics, either before or after the murder.
She has kept up the facade all the way through knowing that her fans would never believe a young woman like herself would ever torture and stab her own roommate in the throat in such a cruel and deeply despicable crime.
I am no fan, but I am someone who can decide on whether someone committed a crime based on evidence, not on who that person is or what they look like. Interesting, I can think of another young, attractive, white, American female - Casey Anthony - who I think is completely guilty of murder. But then, maybe I just wasn't one of her fans, huh?
So, yes, you keep up with the 'it was a burglar who did it and Guede was the burglar' and I'll go with what the evidence proven in court shows,
I'll keep up with the facts.

- A cottage with signs of a break-in
- A known burglar is proven to be in the cottage at the time Meredith was murdered and no reasonable explanation for being there.
- After an extensive forensic search of Meredith's bedroom, ALL of the forensic evidence belonged to Meredith and Guede.
- Meredith was sexually assaulted and Guede's DNA was inside her.
- Guede flees the country after two nights of drinking and dancing.
- Police completely screw up the collection of the bra clasp - the only think linking Raffaele to the crime
- Police completely screw up the knife - first removing it from it's sterile collection bag and later, for numerous forensic errors and omissions.
- Bonus: We now know this sexual assault and domestic violence wasn't an isolated event, now that he's back in trouble with the law for the very same crimes.

You can keep your evidence of Amanda and Meredith living in the same cottage, sharing the same bathroom, to yourself. I find it of little use.

Oh, and BTW, as you already know, Amanda and Raffaele were definitively acquitted because they "did not commit the act", which was also proven in court. Oh wait, I remember now... you get to pick and choose which courts to accept - Massei & Nencini good, Hellman & Marasca bad. What an incredibly effective way to prove your impartial, neutral and entirely objective.
 
When an expert witness is appointed by a court they are supposed to be objective and neutral, neither advocating for one party or the other. And yes, expert witness testimony is testable in court. The expert witnesses are subject to cross examination just as much as any other witness. The judge and jury can take or leave their testimony as they see fit. Gill''s report was never entered into the evidence. Gill was never cross examined as a witness, expert or otherwise. Hence, his multi-page report that Bongiono bashed the Fifth Chambers over the head with at the final Supreme Court hearing should never have been allowed as 'evidence' as it had never been weighed up at any trial or appeal. Do you get it now?
If Gill's report was never entered into evidence, then exactly how did it influence the courts?

When Hellmann referenced Gill and other forensic experts, he was referencing their publications: " (Gill P. et al., 2000; Whitaker J.P. et al., 2001; Kloosterman A.D. et al., 2003; Smith P.J., Ballantyne J., 2007; Forster L. et al., 2008; Budowle B. et al., 2009)" and " (Gill P. et al., 2000; Gill P., 2001; Gill P. et al., 2007)" Or do you think published scientific works should only be allowed when the author(s) can be cross-examined in court?

Conti & Vecchiotti on whose report Gill based his, were not objective and neutral. They were advocating for the defence -
LOL! You only make that accusation because they tore apart the prosecution case on the knife and bra hook. If they'd agreed with Stefanoni, you'd be praising their genius. Just WHY do you think two experts from Rome who had NO previous connection to the case and didn't know either defendant would advocate for them? Wait....I forgot: they're both 'bent'!
Vecchiotti in the past having been caught failing to carry out her proper duties, presumably misguided by a bleeding 'do-gooding' heart more in sympathy with the defendant than their victim or possibly, with some kind of grudge against 'the establishment' -
LOL! As I quoted and cited earlier to you, Vecchiotti was later acquitted of those charges of "gross negligence" ...which per your usual, you ignore. The rest of your comment is just more of your wild imagination working overtime.

were caught red-handed by the Carabinieri, Italy's military police, of secretly working for the defence. They were caught red-handed providing defence DVD's for the defence.
Nonsense. You've made this unsubstantiated claim before and it's just more of your crazy exaggeration and spin. this is what Candace Dempsey said about it:
“According to university sources who witnessed part of the event the cops were sent by the Procura of Perugia (ndr., prosecutor’s office), and ordered Conti and Vecchiotti to hand over the DVD containing the presentation with which yesterday the two scientists had explained in their report in court.”

Since the cops didn’t have warrants, the experts didn’t hand over the DVD. Instead, they dialed Judge Hellmann for support. He made a copy available to the prosecution.’

There is NO evidence that C&V were working for the defense or making or giving them DVD's. If what you claim were true, it would be a criminal act, and they would have been arrested and charged. It would have discredited them and their report so no way would Mignini have not charged them. Use some common sense for once.

The corrupt Hellmann who appointed them to presumably do just that had no choice but to haul C&V before him to explain themselves.
So now Hellmann is not only corrupt, he hired C&V to work for the defense to get AK and RS off. LOL!
Evidence that Hellmann had "to haul C&V before him to explain themselves,"? There are no court record I've found supporting your claim.

All evidence in a live trial must be shared by all parties. Any extraneous activities must be approved beforehand by the court. C&V failed to make an application to the court to (a) make up this DVD and (b) provide it solely to the defence, without the knowledge of the prosecution and civil parties. That is how C&V were objectively corrupt. That is why Chieffi gave them and Hellmann a thorough dressing down and sent the issue to a completely new court, this time in Florence, to that of Nencini's. Hellmann stepped down shortly after in disgrace. This is all factual. Not conjecture of the type you fondly cling onto.
PRESENT EVIDENCE OF ANY OF THE ABOVE. You've been caught red-handed making so many false claims that taking just your word for any of the above isn't even remotely possible.
 
I didn't say Gill was corrupt. I said he got his information from Conti and Vecchiotti (who were corrupt, and excoriated and eviscerated by Chieffi Supreme Court as intellectually dishonest). Gill's report was never entered into evidence. He did not take the stand as an expert witness. He was not cross-examined. His do-gooding report was never tested. Yet Bongiorno - who IS mafia-friendly in that she represents politicians charged with Mafia connections; for example, Andreotti and Berlusconi, who got away with their shenanigans via the same Art 239, 'insufficient evidence' - browbeat the Marasca-Bruno fifth chambers final Supreme Court with Gill's report over two and a half days when all the other parties' counsel were only allowed a skeleton submission (= this is usually stipulated as to be no longer than one side of a double spaced A4 page, or two pages at most, because judges simply don't want to plough through reams and reams) and to sum up verbally within a twenty-minute time limit. If you are unable to see anything irregular about this, then clearly I am wasting my breath. Maybe people are so used to this type of thing in the USA they can no longer recognise it.
I'm confused about what you are referring to in your post quoted above. You claim that "Bongiorno ... browbeat" the Marasca CSC panel "with Gill's report over two and a half days". What is the evidence for your statement? Where in the Marasca CSC panel MR is any report from Gill mentioned? Could you please provide a reference for the alleged report by Gill that was provided to the Marasca CSC.

If you are referring to Gill's publication

Analysis and implications of the miscarriages of justice of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito​

that appeared in the journal Forensic Science International: Genetics, Volume 23, July 2016, pages 9-18.

That publication was not available until more than 1 year after the Marasca CSC panel reached its March 2015 verdict of final acquittal for Knox and Sollecito on the charges of the murder/rape of Kercher.

However, the June 2011 Conti-Vecchiotti report was available to the Marasca CSC panel at the relevant time. Contrary to your previous statements, that report was evidence and could not be "quashed" or otherwise abolished by the Chieffi CSC panel's quashing of the Hellmann Court of Appeal provisional acquittal of Knox and Sollecito on the murder/rape charges.

See:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1872497316300333#bib0110
 
Just discovered this little snippet in the Irish Independent, Thu 3 Jul 2014 at 22:12

<snip>
The police report attached to Knox’s file reportedly stated that: “In the course of the investigation regarding the criminal proceedings 9066/07 [Kercher’s murder] they discovered that an Italian person from time to time replenished Amanda Knox’s narcotic substances, as well as having allegedly had with her the relationship of a sexual nature.”

Well, well. So one of the posters here was misled when they said there were no phone calls logged between the dealer and Knox.
Ahem...these were claims made by the police that were never substantiated. Nor was Knox ever charged with any of the above.
As previously pointed out, Knox's phone logs are available and no such calls are noted.

If that 2008 report were true, then why was her alleged association with the drug dealer or dealerS never brought up in ANY of her trials?

The Irish Independent was just reporting what the police claimed, not their validity.

Police and the media made many claims that later proved to be false.
 
British news outlets do verify their news items. That would have been the situation Irish Independent (OK so it is not British but Ireland has extremely good quality newspapers) would have been informed of as of the time.
LOL! They print what the police and prosecution claim; they do NOT verify the accuracy of claims made by the police.

If you are going to call Guede a drug dealer and burglar without any substantiation,
I previously provided several links to UK newpaper articles (BBC and The Telegraph) describing him as a drug-dealer already. According to you, "British news outlets do verify their news items."

1. "Drug-dealer Guede was jailed for 30 years for the sexual assault and murder of Miss Kercher after a separate fast-track trial. His sentence was reduced to 16 years on appeal."

2. "Small-time drug dealer Guede fled to Germany but was extradited to Italy. "

3. "Guede, a drug dealer from the Ivory Coast, has admitted being present at Miss Kercher's cottage on the night of the murder but denied involvement."

4. "Only one person was definitively convicted of the murder of Kercher – Rudy Guede, a small-time drug dealer born in the Ivory Coast who lived in Perugia."

5. "Prosecutors said it was the result of a four-way sex game in which Miss Knox, Mr Sollecito and Rudy Guede, a small-time drug dealer from Perugia of Ivory Coast origin,"

When you just make crap up to suit whatever is needed at the time, you invariably get caught out.
it follows that what is sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose. You can't slag off Guede for having been in a drugs dispute aged 15, when Knox herself was consorting with very serious criminals. This isn't a tit-for-tat issue. The incredible danger Mez was put in by Knox consorting with such unsavoury characters. It is just shocking that she had to be subjected to this.
No evidence of her ever "consorting" with these "unsavory characters" was ever produced. No narcotics (other than weed) was found in her hair test (which you've attempted to discredit, unsuccessfully, before), and no witnesses or phone contacts show her consorting with drug dealers or other 'unsavory characters'. What's shocking is your blatant dishonesty.
 
The issue of whether or not Guede was an unsavoury character is a complete deflection The point is, Knox chose him and Sollecito as her flying monkeys, according to the trial evidence, which was upheld by Massei and Nencini after having heard all of the evidence. Bongiorno got the pair off by fair means or foul but not based on any evidence that came out of the trial, just some garbled nonsense that the forensic police's sterile latex gloves might have transfered Sollecito's full DNA profile onto Mez' bra-clasp. That doesn't make Sollecito and Knox heroes. If you want to solve a crime you have to look at the nature of the crime. When you do this, it is apparent that it was not a bog standard burglary or theft at all. The average burglar or thief doesn't cross over to sadistic killer and rapist; that is a different crime all together. It was obvious to the police and the detectives that here was a long-drawn out torture and hazing of a young 21-year-old student away from home, subjected to the gravest depravity of being hazed by a knife point (thirteen knife point jabs), her dignity and modesty ripped away from her by an act of cruel undressing. Zero to few defence wounds indicate being forcibly restrained whilst the torture was ongoing. This was a group of people having fun. Where do we see a history of enjoying hazing people? Not in a burglar, drug dealer or thief. We see several reports from Knox' own peers in Washington of her penchant for what she calls 'pranks' - they call it distressing bullying - and short stories describing exactly what happened to Mez. This was not a theft or a burglary, it was a sadistic cold blooded murder performed for the pleasure of a deeply disturbed and controlling set of individuals. Yes, two were young adults, the other, a fully grown 23-year-old man - described by the prosecutor as 'icy cold' - was adult enough to know it was wrong and to have called the whole thing to a halt when it got out of hand, but instead let it continue to its grisly end. Then we had the theatre of the staged burglary and positioning of the body to make it look like a stranger killing. Mignini was absolutely right when he described Knox as manipulative, narcissistic and transgressive. She has kept up the facade all the way through knowing that her fans would never believe a young woman like herself would ever torture and stab her own roommate in the throat in such a cruel and deeply despicable crime. So, yes, you keep up with the 'it was a burglar who did it and Guede was the burglar' and I'll go with what the evidence proven in court shows,
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