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Ed Israel/US Attacks Iran /Yet Another Country/Iran

easy to salvage: Trump can lift sanctions on Iran for them suspending their program (for now), and then he can claim it was his bombs that did the trick.
 
Accurate intelligence and sober reasoning are required to, not win, but exit from this cul-de-sac of eternal confrontation with Israel's enemies. That's whose enemies they are, the US being part of the picture because it bankrolls and arms Israel. The nanosecond Israel knows it is totally alone and must pay its own way, win its own battles, peace will inevitably break out in the Middle East in near lockstep. The only concern the West should have is support for rigidly correct 1967 borders (no Wall incursions into Palestine) as a red line to any action against Israel or by Palestinian terrorists. Otherwise, time to leave and put Israel on loud ignore.
 
theprestige said:
After a moment's reconsideration, I remembered that Iran is indeed a foreign aggressor to Israel (and Iraq, and Saudi Arabia, and... ).

So now I suppose either you don't see it that way, or you don't think preemptive strikes have a place in the waging of a just war.
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What does this have to do with American engagement?
 
theprestige said:
In support of an alliance with Ukraine, or with any other nation entering into an armed conflict with Russia? Yes, of course. Why wouldn't I? Was this supposed to be some kind of trick question?
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Cool. Show me the post where you advocated for the U.S. conducting military strikes on Russia prior to this one.
 
johnny karate said:
Got it. So you condone America conducting military strikes on Russia, correct?
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Can't speak for theprestige, but I have. But TBF, here we are attempting military intervention to prevent Iran from getting nukes. Cannot do that to Russia. One is about oh (pick a big number) times more dangerous than the other.

ETA: the Russian/Ukrainian war is a good example of why we wouldn't want Iran to have nukes. They can then freely bully anyone and the west will be scared ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ to do anything about it.
 
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johnny karate said:
Cool. Show me the post where you advocated for the U.S. conducting military strikes on Russia prior to this one.
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I honestly can't recall the last time attacking the enemy of an ally in a just war came up as a moral question. But my view of the issue has been the same for a long time.

Why do you ask? Are you concerned that I haven't been consistent on this point? I suppose it's possible. My views on a lot of things have changed over the past twenty years or so. Feel free to dig through the archives and call out fifteen-years-ago-me for having a different opinion than the one I've since arrived at.
 
lobosrul5 said:
Can't speak for theprestige, but I have. But TBF, here we are attempting military intervention to prevent Iran from getting nukes. Cannot do that to Russia. One is about oh (pick a big number) times more dangerous than the other.

ETA: the Russian/Ukrainian war is a good example of why we wouldn't want Iran to have nukes. They can then freely bully anyone and the west will be scared ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ to do anything about it.
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The dubiousness of claims about Iran's nuclear capacity aside, that is not the issue being discussed in this instance.
 
theprestige said:
I honestly can't recall the last time attacking the enemy of an ally in a just war came up as a moral question. But my view of the issue has been the same for a long time.

Why do you ask? Are you concerned that I haven't been consistent on this point? I suppose it's possible. My views on a lot of things have changed over the past twenty years or so. Feel free to dig through the archives and call out fifteen-years-ago-me for having a different opinion than the one I've since arrived at.
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I have no interest in digging into anything and would simply look to you to establish your consistency in holding a principle that you are now using as some kind of litmus for other posters. Your inability to do so is all the information I need to adequately judge your intentions.
 
catsmate said:
Rubbish. You really don't have a clue do you? I suggest you go and research nuclear engineering.
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If they got away with their 900 kg of HEU 60%, they can bring it to weapons grade in a few weeks with centrifuges spinning 24/7.

Looks like Trump ◊◊◊◊ ed up and hit Iran too late.
 
Hercules56 said:
If they got away with their 900 kg of HEU 60%, they can bring it to weapons grade in a few weeks with centrifuges spinning 24/7.
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What centrifuges? At what hardened locations? With what power supply? With what operational security?

Heavy industry of this type has a huge footprint and leaves a lot of indicators. How long do you think it took Iran to build Fordow? How easy do you imagine it would be to hide the construction, equipping, and activation of a Fordow 2.0?
 
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