Ed Israel/US Attacks Iran /Yet Another Country/Iran

[Jack by the hedge]

It's known where Iran's centrifuges are, or perhaps were, but how about the uranium itself? They couldn't make a viable nuke with stocks of 60% enriched uranium but they could make all the dirty bombs they could wish for and contaminate large areas of somewhere they don't like.

That then makes it worth referring back to Planigale's point about Khamenei - he puts the brakes on Iran developing such weapons, as he regards WMDs as immoral, which could be why Trump made a point of saying he wasn't being targeted. (Although I admit my first instinct was less generous and I assumed Trump just selfishly wanted to argue for a rule that Presidents are off-limits and shouldn't be targets.)

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

I'm not sure they are so much Iran supporters as Israel and US haters. And that hatred makes strange bedfellows (for example, Queers for Palestine).

I don't hate Israel or the US.
But I do feel that if the countries claiming moral superiority behave as abysmal as Russia they should be called out on it.

In the last century Iran has been attacked by the Allies in WW2, had a government going for more democracy overthrown because it went against western interests. This led to an oppressive regime in which the Ayatollah's seemed a better alternative. It was then invaded by Iraq with a lot of backing from the US, which allowed the Ayatollah's to use wartime measures to increase their grip on power.

Israel has illegally occupied large portions of it's neighbouring territory for decades on end, and is ethnically cleansing parts of it based on theological grounds. And while Iran is doing similar things to it's minorities it has never occupied neighbours.
Israel is/was given free reign to develop nuclear weapons and any attempts to make them follow the same rules as all other nuclear countries (except North Korea) are vetoed by the US. Iran has been sanctioned for decades for trying to do the same.
Both Iran and Israel support terrorist strikes on each others territory, but only Iran is called out on it.

And the Ayatollah's can use that and these strikes to stay in power using the foreign enemies as a scapegoat.

IMO these actions are totally counterproductive and will not make the region safer in any way shape or form, but it will create yet another refugee stream that the US sure isn't going to take care of, but rather the EU will have to deal with again.
Every time the US has intervened in the Middle East in the past 40 years it's the EU that gets to pay the bill by having to absorb even more angry and war ravaged refugees.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I'm not sure they are so much Iran supporters as Israel and US haters. And that hatred makes strange bedfellows (for example, Queers for Palestine).

I blame motion pictures. For generations now one of the most prevalent forms of entertainment has been fiction that usually represents conflict being between "good guys" and "bad guys". People get this notion into their heads that in any given conflict a) there is a "good guy" and a "bad guy", b) that they are capable of deciding which is which based on limited, biased, or no information, and c) it's appropriate for them to sit in judgment of nations simply because they want to. And then d) they have to air their opinions on the matter to everyone else. So people anoint themselves partisans (without the inconvenience of actually, you know, doing anything for the cause they favor) and talk, talk, talk about it.

eta: I don't mean this in an offensive way, but y'all taking sides in Israel vs Iran or Israel vs Palestine or Israel vs Gaza on an internet message board has exactly the same real-world value as y'all taking sides on Team Jacob vs Team Edward. It's nice that you're keeping yourselves entertained and feeling feelings about important stuff but ultimately does it actually matter?

 

[TragicMonkey]

I don't hate Israel or the US.
But I do feel that if the countries claiming moral superiority behave as abysmal as Russia they should be called out on it.

What countries don't claim moral superiority when acting in their own interests? They all do. You don't have to take such claims seriously. Every nation acts as it wishes, every nation attempts to put the best possible spin on those actions. "Call it out" all you like: everybody over the age of five already knows this (unless they're brainwashed populations like the North Koreans or something, and they won't believe you because of the brainwashing).

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

What countries don't claim moral superiority when acting in their own interests? They all do. You don't have to take such claims seriously. Every nation acts as it wishes, every nation attempts to put the best possible spin on those actions. "Call it out" all you like: everybody over the age of five already knows this (unless they're brainwashed populations like the North Koreans or something, and they won't believe you because of the brainwashing).

I fully agree. And yet, pointing out that Israel and/or the US are not squeaky clean white hat guys that never can do wrong is immediately called hatred of or antisemitism.
Again, the actions of the US currently are giving Russia ammunition to claim "See, if you guys do it, we are not wrong either!"
Not to mention that the US claims.. well claimed to subscribe to certain rules and laws and now blatantly breaks them. Not because Iran is a threat to them, but just to make the manchild in charge feel like a real boy.

 

[johnny karate]

I'm not sure they are so much Iran supporters as Israel and US haters. And that hatred makes strange bedfellows (for example, Queers for Palestine).

The transition from "Trump is a hero because he never got us into any wars" to "If you don't support Trump's war, you hate America" is complete.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I fully agree. And yet, pointing out that Israel and/or the US are not squeaky clean white hat guys that never can do wrong is immediately called hatred of or antisemitism.

Well, of course. It's all spin, too. With both individuals and nations what matters most is what they do, not what they say.

Again, the actions of the US currently are giving Russia ammunition to claim "See, if you guys do it, we are not wrong either!"

Again, nations will say anything. They're not bound by internet message board conventions where they have to try to appear consistent, or honest, or decent. They'll say whatever suits them best at the moment. They have zero problems with ignoring criticism, even when that criticism is actually true. A country isn't going to say "oh! You're right, we're being evil! We'll stop, thanks for pointing it out!" are they?

Not to mention that the US claims.. well claimed to subscribe to certain rules and laws and now blatantly breaks them. Not because Iran is a threat to them, but just to make the manchild in charge feel like a real boy.

It's encouraging, really, to see that all over the world people are just the same.

 

[Tero]

mattvardy
It took 30 years, but Netanyahu finally found a US president dumb enough to say yes to his war with Iran.

 

[TragicMonkey]

mattvardy
It took 30 years, but Netanyahu finally found a US president dumb enough to say yes to his war with Iran.

Trump was president before, though. Why not then? What's changed, if this was all Netanyahu's idea?

 

[Dr.Sid]

Nations prepared to arm Iran with nuclear warheads after US strikes, Russia’s Medvedev claims ..

Russia's Medvedev: Countries to arm Iran with nuclear warheads | The Jerusalem Post

Medvedev suggested that the United States’ attacks on three sites in Isfahan, Natanz, and Fordow backfired, and led to the opposite result from what US President Donald Trump had set out to achieve.

www.jpost.com

Can I react with laughing emoji on my own post ? Never mind, it's not crazy enough ..

 

[theprestige]

Looks like someone finally got through to Trump what a properly American military parade looks like.

 

[Hlafordlaes]

This seems interesting. Could you provide a simplified translation?

Iran's wholly justified counterattack was quite satisfying to watch, and until hours ago, the only thing that might spoil events was for Trump to attack Iran. He did; i.e., the orange man in a coma has vomited to his Right. The US has broken domestic and international law, and like Israel, it is a rogue nation afoul of the rule of law.

Bad actors being bad, and being celebrated by the bad. Happens all the time, sadly; it's just a tad novel for the US to do so without a fig leaf and a session of lying in testimony before the UN. Not even going through the motions. Add threats to attack Panama and Greenland, and annex Canada.

The First American Reich is here, impervious to its own justice system and that of the world. Sadly for Mr. Puss-in-Jackboots, Ukraine has shown how to democratize strategic warfare on the cheap. Oops!

 

[Mike!]

Iran's wholly justified counterattack was quite satisfying to watch, and until hours ago, the only thing that might spoil events was for Trump to attack Iran. He did; i.e., the orange man in a coma has vomited to his Right. The US has broken domestic and international law, and like Israel, it is a rogue nation afoul of the rule of law.

Bad actors being bad, and being celebrated by the bad. Happens all the time, sadly; it's just a tad novel for the US to do so without a fig leaf and a session of lying in testimony before the UN. Not even going through the motions. Add threats to attack Panama and Greenland, and annex Canada.

The First American Reich is here, impervious to its own justice system and that of the world. Sadly for Mr. Puss-in-Jackboots, Ukraine has shown how to democratize strategic warfare on the cheap. Oops!

Thank you.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

officially, the US had 20 GBU-57A/B MOP Bunker buster, build up since 2011.
It just dropped 14 of them.

 

[Hercules56]

Iran threatening to close Straits of Hormuz. That could bring Iraq, Kuwait, Gulf States and Saudi Arabia into the war.

And bring regime change to Iran.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

the Gulf States understand that violence is not going to help there - no amount of bombing is going to stop Iran from being able to attack tankers.

 

[lobosrul5]

the Gulf States understand that violence is not going to help there - no amount of bombing is going to stop Iran from being able to attack tankers.

You personally know what all the heads of states in The Gulf think?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

You personally know what all the heads of states in The Gulf think?

let's wait an see - it's not like we have any other option.

 

[dirtywick]

Trump was president before, though. Why not then? What's changed, if this was all Netanyahu's idea?

his last cabinet had a lot less sycophantic knuckleheads

 

[dudalb]

What countries don't claim moral superiority when acting in their own interests? They all do. You don't have to take such claims seriously. Every nation acts as it wishes, every nation attempts to put the best possible spin on those actions. "Call it out" all you like: everybody over the age of five already knows this (unless they're brainwashed populations like the North Koreans or something, and they won't believe you because of the brainwashing).

I agree a simplistic good guy vs bad guy attitude is dangerous and wrong.But the other extreme, total Moral Equivilncy, is equally dangerous.

Trump was president before, though. Why not then? What's changed, if this was all Netanyahu's idea?

Come on guy, answer is that in his first term, there were mainstrem Republicans in his cabinent, who managed some restraint to Trump's impulsive behavior. THis time he has nothing but yes men and sycophonts.I think that is pretty obvious.