smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Maybe some reality has been kicking in? We can always hope I guess.
Transwomen are not Women - Part 15
- Thread starter d4m10n
- Start date
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Another one
This trans-identifying male athlete is Zachary Rose (but calls himself "Lia" now). If anyone thinks this is not about winning, that they just want to be their "true, authentic self"TM - then I beg to differ.
nypost.com
So, he finished dead last against fellow males with a height of 4ft 6in (12 in behind the winner), then the very next year, he calls himself a girl, and wins the competition with a height of 4ft 8in. This boy is simply a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ cheat.
Oregon high school girls REFUSE to stand with trans athlete on podium
Two Oregon high school athletes refused to share the podium with a transgender competitor at the state girls' high jump championship, sparking renewed debate over fairness in women’s sports. Tennis legend Martina Navratilova said women are punished under a system shaped by men.
Reese Eckard (Sherwood High School) and Alexa Anderson (Tigard High School) stepped down from the podium after a transgender athlete placed fifth. Anderson had placed third, while Eckard took fourth.
This trans-identifying male athlete is Zachary Rose (but calls himself "Lia" now). If anyone thinks this is not about winning, that they just want to be their "true, authentic self"TM - then I beg to differ.
Trans track athlete wins varsity girls competition after previously placing last against JV boys: report
A transgender athlete took home first place in a varsity high jump competition at an Oregon high school meet Wednesday, according to a report.
nypost.com
A transgender athlete took home first place in a varsity high jump competition at an Oregon high school meet Wednesday, roughly two years after finishing last while competing against junior varsity boys, according to a report. Lia Rose, who reportedly used to compete as Zachary, won the high jump at the Portland Interscholastic League Varsity Relays with a height of 4 feet, 8 inches, beating the second-place finisher by two inches.
According to athletic.net, while competing against JV boys May 3, 2023, Zachary Rose finished 11th out of 11 competitors with a jump of 4 feet, 6 inches. The winning height in that meet was another foot higher.
So, he finished dead last against fellow males with a height of 4ft 6in (12 in behind the winner), then the very next year, he calls himself a girl, and wins the competition with a height of 4ft 8in. This boy is simply a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ cheat.
Rolfe
Adult human female
I am not sure we can say this is only about wanting to win and cheating. These boys have to live in the persona they have adopted. They have to grow their hair and wear makeup and female-typical clothes and get changed with the girls and talk all the standard bollocks about their true self and living authentically and so on. I am unconvinced that any boy would be prepared to do that just to win, even if there were plaudits and scholarship places attached. Most would find it demeaning, distasteful and degrading.
On the other hand, autogynaephilia is not so rare. In the past I think a majority of boys and men with that tendency kept it secret out of shame and embarrassment. Pinching their sisters' or their wives underwear and cross-dressing in private was the limit for most. But now it's no longer the butt of jokes, it's no longer something to feel shame and embarrassment about and pray fervently that you're never discovered, instead it's "stunning and brave". Coming out as a male cross-dresser now gets you catapulted to the top of the oppression hierarchy where everyone is lining up to tell you how much you're loved and promote your right to do anything the hell you feel like doing. For the young ones, the teenagers and early 20s, it's a double win because they get to "dress" in public at an age when they can still make a reasonable attempt at passing for female. And you also get to win the girls' races! What's not to like?
I think the present climate is bringing the AGPs of all ages out of the woodwork, happy to be feted for their paraphilia rather than shamed. And of course the ones who are interested in sports are going to milk it for all it's worth.
On the other hand, autogynaephilia is not so rare. In the past I think a majority of boys and men with that tendency kept it secret out of shame and embarrassment. Pinching their sisters' or their wives underwear and cross-dressing in private was the limit for most. But now it's no longer the butt of jokes, it's no longer something to feel shame and embarrassment about and pray fervently that you're never discovered, instead it's "stunning and brave". Coming out as a male cross-dresser now gets you catapulted to the top of the oppression hierarchy where everyone is lining up to tell you how much you're loved and promote your right to do anything the hell you feel like doing. For the young ones, the teenagers and early 20s, it's a double win because they get to "dress" in public at an age when they can still make a reasonable attempt at passing for female. And you also get to win the girls' races! What's not to like?
I think the present climate is bringing the AGPs of all ages out of the woodwork, happy to be feted for their paraphilia rather than shamed. And of course the ones who are interested in sports are going to milk it for all it's worth.
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Hercules56
Banned
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- Aug 4, 2013
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Stories like this make it clear men should not compete with women in sports. Its simply not fair.Another one
Oregon high school girls REFUSE to stand with trans athlete on podiumTwo Oregon high school athletes refused to share the podium with a transgender competitor at the state girls' high jump championship, sparking renewed debate over fairness in women’s sports. Tennis legend Martina Navratilova said women are punished under a system shaped by men.Reese Eckard (Sherwood High School) and Alexa Anderson (Tigard High School) stepped down from the podium after a transgender athlete placed fifth. Anderson had placed third, while Eckard took fourth.
This trans-identifying male athlete is Zachary Rose (but calls himself "Lia" now). If anyone thinks this is not about winning, that they just want to be their "true, authentic self"TM - then I beg to differ.
Trans track athlete wins varsity girls competition after previously placing last against JV boys: report
A transgender athlete took home first place in a varsity high jump competition at an Oregon high school meet Wednesday, according to a report.A transgender athlete took home first place in a varsity high jump competition at an Oregon high school meet Wednesday, roughly two years after finishing last while competing against junior varsity boys, according to a report. Lia Rose, who reportedly used to compete as Zachary, won the high jump at the Portland Interscholastic League Varsity Relays with a height of 4 feet, 8 inches, beating the second-place finisher by two inches.According to athletic.net, while competing against JV boys May 3, 2023, Zachary Rose finished 11th out of 11 competitors with a jump of 4 feet, 6 inches. The winning height in that meet was another foot higher.
So, he finished dead last against fellow males with a height of 4ft 6in (12 in behind the winner), then the very next year, he calls himself a girl, and wins the competition with a height of 4ft 8in. This boy is simply a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ cheat.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
I tend to agree. I've said in earlier chapters of this thread, that men competing as women is not about athletic excellence, but about having something that's reserved for women. Winning is incidental, and transwoman athletes would be more likely to degrade their athletic potential, than give up something reserved for women. Not only are transwomen in women's sports not women, they're not even athletes anymore. They're cosplaying as both - gutting women's sports and wearing it like a skin suit while demanding respect.
(Conversely, I do think that for some "transvestite" athletes, such as Imane Khalif, it's about winning. In such cases, I view the trans cheat as a means to an end.)
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Rolfe
Adult human female
That is a point. Many of them are prepared to cripple their ability by taking drugs in order to compete with women. Good observation. A true athlete always wants to be the best he or she can be.
Since there's no evidence of Khelif trying to cosplay as a woman, I think you're right there. I woudn't even call him transvestite - he only started to do a bit of womanface very recently. I'm not yet convinced he has a DSD. I see no compelling evidence that anyone (including himself) has ever believed him to be or treated him as a girl, and a fair bit of circumstantial evidence that he may be a normal male.
Since there's no evidence of Khelif trying to cosplay as a woman, I think you're right there. I woudn't even call him transvestite - he only started to do a bit of womanface very recently. I'm not yet convinced he has a DSD. I see no compelling evidence that anyone (including himself) has ever believed him to be or treated him as a girl, and a fair bit of circumstantial evidence that he may be a normal male.
Rolfe
Adult human female
What I was saying about shame and embarrassment.
I have no idea why sometimes these tweets don't render and sometimes they do.
I have no idea why sometimes these tweets don't render and sometimes they do.
angrysoba
Philosophile
I wonder about that…
First off, should AGP be a source of shame? I don’t see why. But whereas there were plenty of people who before would refer to themselves as transvestites, apparently with little to no shame for themselves personally, now some of them, such as Eddie Izzard refer to themselves as transgender.
I’m a bit baffled why the “transvestite” label became too toxic for those who had been fined with it before.
Rolfe
Adult human female
I think there's some cross-posting here. Yes, I think dressing up in your sister's or your wife's or your daughter's underwear and masturbating is something men ought to be ashamed of. They were, for most of recorded history. The Lumberjack Song and that Python sketch and Little Britain served a function there. You remember I talked about Richard Wagner who absolutely got off on wearing pink frilly knickers but was mortified when this became public. Quite right too.
angrysoba
Philosophile
Is cross-dressing really a “psychopathology” though?
This again seems like the full-circle that the debate has gone.
Sex is biological and should be the cornerstone for public policy. Or at least that is what people were arguing here for the last few years.
Gender is just a set of cultural stereotypes, etc…
But now, suddenly, being a man means not wearing dresses and make-up and false eyelashes, etc… that to adopt “female” dress is a psychopathology!? Whaaaat?!
Do we also do this kind of attribution of psychopathology for the lesbians with short hair, dungarees and Doc Martin boots? Is this a psychopathology now because they aren’t adopting their true Platonic forms of the tradwife woman?
angrysoba
Philosophile
Would you prefer Eddie Izzard to refer to himself as a transvestite who likes to wear Hillary Clinton pantsuits and make-up or as a transgender woman who uses the women’s loo?
Or is that a false choice and he should be dressing as men always have, with an Elizabethan ruff, pancake make-up and a dangly earring?
angrysoba
Philosophile
I mean, maybe if Wagner was less shamed for wearing pink frilly knickers and more ashamed for being a god-dammned anti-Semite, maybe the world would have been better.
In fact, think of the argument you are making here. Apparently, always and everywhere the world has stigmatized cross-dressing, and that fact in and of itself seems to be taken as good evidence that such stigmatization is right and proper.
There are two problems with it that I can see:
1.) you are accepting the very premise that transgenderism is predicated on: that gender matters.
2.) presumably people like Wagner and other anti-semites would point to the history of anti-semitism and remark how people seem to hate the Jews everywhere as evidence that there is something right and proper about hating the Jews.
In fact, think of the argument you are making here. Apparently, always and everywhere the world has stigmatized cross-dressing, and that fact in and of itself seems to be taken as good evidence that such stigmatization is right and proper.
There are two problems with it that I can see:
1.) you are accepting the very premise that transgenderism is predicated on: that gender matters.
2.) presumably people like Wagner and other anti-semites would point to the history of anti-semitism and remark how people seem to hate the Jews everywhere as evidence that there is something right and proper about hating the Jews.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Oh don't be ridiculous.
angrysoba
Philosophile
What is ridiculous?
You are claiming that evidence that a stigma is right and good is that a widespread stigma exists.
How is that not different from arguing the same for something like racism, or perhaps a more obvious one, homosexuality?
Do we argue that homosexuality should be stigmatized because traditionally it always has been?
Besides, the example you gave is this "I think dressing up in your sister's or your wife's or your daughter's underwear and masturbating is something men ought to be ashamed of. "
But here is the thing, most people are not public about masturbating are they? And adding in "your sister" or "your daughter" poisons the well.
What about a guy who happens to order some women's underwear off the internet from a reputable shop who uses it for his own private pleasure? Is that any more or less shameful than someone watching vanilla porn and doing the same?
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Don't you just love contrarians?
Rolfe
Adult human female
It is right that some things should be stigmatised. It would have been good if Wagner had been more ashamed of his antisemitism, but that doesn't mean that he shouldn't have been ashamed of his autogynaephilia. And you know what? I'm sick of inappropriate analogies with racism and homophobia in this thread. It seems the go-to argument from people who have nothing else is "segregating toilets by sex is just like apartheid!"
People are not public about masturbating, until suddenly it's stunning and brave if they're doing it in women's toilets dressed in a miniskirt and a bad wig. What prevents anyone from masturbating in public? Or having sex, or defaecating, or stripping off naked? Shame, that's what. If masturbating into women's underwear is your thing, then keep it personal please. Sure, better buy your own (as Wagner did, which is what got him exposed) rather than steal your wife's, but autogynaephilia is not something we want out in public, whether it's in the extreme forms we see in the Instagram accounts of the exhibitionists or the man acting his fetish as a demure "lady teacher" in a school. (Yes, David "Debbie" Hayton, I'm talking about you.)
angrysoba
Philosophile
Yep, segregating by sex!
Read that again! The reason why is because I am in favour of segregating by sex, just as you are. But when you start going down the road of stigmatizing Wagner for secretly wearing pink frilly knickers, you are no longer talking about the same thing.
Remember what JK Rowling said?
"Dress however you please!"
Who is supporting public masturbating? The thing you were complaining about is men wearing women's clothes, and saying that that should be stigmatized, like in the lumberjack song. Wagner should be ashamed!
Why should men not wear women's clothes or dress how they want if they abide by sex-segregation?
Do you not see how you have crossed over from making sex-based claims to engaging in gender gufferywoo?
angrysoba
Philosophile
Stop hiding behing Rolfe's skirt and expecting her to fight battles for you. Stop being a coward and unblock me and respond to my arguments against your positions. Ya big girl's blouse!
Rolfe
Adult human female
I am talking about keeping autogynaephilia in the closet, where it belongs. Oh yes it's so lovely to see Luna being her true self and swanning around looking like Les Dawson on a bad hair day, until we start to realise what is driving this compulsion.
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
This seems like exactly the wrong approach, unless we're talking about some space where we are all supposed to feign sexlessness, e.g. office workplaces. I'd much rather know who is AGP than not know, if I found that sort of thing alarming.