Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Ziggurat]

Predatory males willing to enter female-only spaces by claiming trans identity are a real thing. Moreover, they pose an actual, real-world problem for women. This isn't hypothetical, this isn't paranoia, it's demonstrated.

No one on the trans advocate side has come up with even a suggestion about what to do about it beyond accepting their presence. Not even the people claiming that they aren't trans advocates even while de facto taking their side.

 

[d4m10n]

You asked the question in scare quotes. I answered in kind.

Nothing scary about those quotes; you brought up the idea of what it means to "be trans," IIRC.

Declaring, identifying, who the hell cares.

Only one of those things requires an outward affirmation.

 

[d4m10n]

I think you understand what a fantasy is.

What I don't understand here is the difference between Frank's fantasy of being a ****able ladyboy and the actual subjective experience of a trans-identified AGP.

Under what clinical or activist definition of what it takes to "be trans" does Frank not fit the bill?

 

[d4m10n]

Are you guys making all kinds of homosexual inferences too?

Not sure why this should matter, but when males help each other climax that's pretty much what that is.

 

[Thermal]

What I don't understand here is the difference between Frank's fantasy of being a ****able ladyboy

Not sure that he was...?

and the actual subjective experience of a trans-identified AGP.

...and not sure what that is? I mean, are you using real terms or is this one of y'alls made-up defintions?

Under what clinical or activist definition of what it takes to "be trans" does Frank not fit the bill?

He does not self identify as being a woman. He wondered, in his drug addled state, if he was, and wanted to look at someone else while imagining himself to be the woman sitting there while he ◊◊◊◊◊◊ himself, with a guy that looked like himself doing the railing.

That's not trans. That's not even AGP. That's some freaky ass ◊◊◊◊ that the writers made up for shock value, and the anti trans brigade latched onto it because it sounds so ◊◊◊◊◊◊ up that they say "ya that's exactly how I want to portray transwomen".

All of which has eclipsed my fairly low standards again, so imma back off till Rolfe or one of you finds that credible research about AGP that's not eye-rolled at by the scientific community. I imagine a long wait coming.

 

[Myriad]

Predatory males willing to enter female-only spaces by claiming trans identity are a real thing. Moreover, they pose an actual, real-world problem for women. This isn't hypothetical, this isn't paranoia, it's demonstrated.

No one on the trans advocate side has come up with even a suggestion about what to do about it beyond accepting their presence. Not even the people claiming that they aren't trans advocates even while de facto taking their side.

Yeah, but predatory only appears on one single page of the dictionary so it's clearly not really a thing.

 

[d4m10n]

He does not self identify as being a woman.

"...what I really wanted was to BE one of these Asian girls..."

That's some freaky ass ◊◊◊◊ that the writers made up for shock value, and the anti trans brigade latched onto it

I've already linked to the pro-trans brigade latching onto it, over at Reddit.

 

[Thermal]

"...what I really wanted was to BE one of these Asian girls..."

(before the '...') "maybe...maybe..." And later "I dunno, maybe I was trying to ◊◊◊◊ my way to an answer".

Not trans. Not even autogynophilia. Dissociative weirdness that I don't even think there is a coding for. Which is appropriate, because it is all pretend.

I've already linked to the pro-trans brigade latching onto it, over at Reddit.

And I've already noted that in half a billion users, you are sure to find whatever posts suit your argument. That's assuming perfect candor and honesty from...redditors, of course. They don't make things up for trolling and their own karma on the daily, no siree Bob.

 

[d4m10n]

(before the '...') "maybe...maybe..." And later "I dunno, maybe I was trying to ◊◊◊◊ my way to an answer".

Okay one last go round on this.

No, really. Really. So one night I took home some girl, turned out to be a ladyboy, which I’d done before, but this time, instead of ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ the ladyboy, the ladyboy ◊◊◊◊◊◊ ME. And it was kinda magical. And I got it in my head, what I really wanted was to BE one of these Asian girls, getting ◊◊◊◊◊◊, by me, and to feel that.​

Frank "really wanted" to BE one of the natal males who pass as female.

Eroticism aside, this is perfectly ordinary trans identification.

 

[Thermal]

Wrong paragraph.

Frank: No, really. Really. So one night I took home some girl, turned out to be a ladyboy, which I’d done before, but this time, instead of ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ the ladyboy, the ladyboy ◊◊◊◊◊◊ ME. And it was kinda magical. And it got outta my head, what I really wanted was to BE one of these Asian girls, getting ◊◊◊◊◊◊, by me, and to feel that.

That's great. I don't have the script memorized. A quickie jaunt back into the real world of data and credible research would be most welcome.

 

[d4m10n]

A quickie jaunt back into the real world of data and credible research would be most welcome.

Is the research question whether AGP doesn't fit the DSM criteria?

 

[Thermal]

Okay one last go round on this:

Eroticism aside, this is perfectly ordinary trans identification.

Jesus Christ dude, you said that out loud. You seriously think perfectly ordinary trans identification is to be railed by four men per night wearing lingerie and perfume?

 

[Thermal]

Is the research question whether AGP doesn't fit the DSM criteria?

No. But I have a somewhat less hypersexualized view of transpeoplle, so Thermal out. This is not a healthy discussion.

 

[Mashuna]

Yeah, but predatory only appears on one single page of the dictionary so it's clearly not really a thing.

And a pre-date is what happens when you're getting ready to go for a nice meal with someone, so can't be a problem.

 

[smartcooky]

Predatory males willing to enter female-only spaces by claiming trans identity are a real thing. Moreover, they pose an actual, real-world problem for women. This isn't hypothetical, this isn't paranoia, it's demonstrated.

No one on the trans advocate side has come up with even a suggestion about what to do about it beyond accepting their presence. Not even the people claiming that they aren't trans advocates even while de facto taking their side.

100% Agree with the highlighted.

If you support and/or accept the idea of biological males being permitted to enter woman-only spaces, then you are on the wrong side of everything (and in the UK, that everything includes the law).

If those biological males are transgender or any kind, whether fiat Self-ID, cross dressers or AGPs, or any other type, then you ARE a transgender rights advocate, even if you don't think you are.... and If you are aggressive and rude about it, and if you are dismissive of other's arguments to the contrary, or call them "trans-haters" or "bigots", then you are a Transgender Rights Activist - no better than the TRA protesters in the UK.

 

[d4m10n]

You seriously think perfectly ordinary trans identification is to be railed by four men per night wearing lingerie and perfume?

"Eroticism aside" obviously wouldn't include that bit.

From where I'm sitting, it doesn't matter one whit why someone desperately wants to see themselves (and/or be seen by others) as the opposite sex; the diagnostic criteria don't really care one way or another.

I have a somewhat less hypersexualized view of transpeople

We should only look at research questions which fit your predetermined narrative?

Honestly, I'd rather trust random redditors to post about their lived experience, at least then we're getting a broad cross-section.

 

[Thermal]

"Eroticism aside" obviously wouldn't include that bit.

Dude, wtf? There is nothing at all to Franks tale besides the eroticism bit. Did you hear him saying he wanted to go shopping with the other Asian girls and do makeup and pee in the women's toilet or gossip about White Lotus? It was nothing but a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ fantasy, in the most literal sense.

I mean I get your multi bladed Devils Advocate thing you have going on here, but come on. There is nothing at all to Frank's story but him as an Asian girl being railed by him. It's nothing at all but sex

We should only look at research questions which fit your predetermined narrative?

Back atcha.

 

[d4m10n]

Back atcha.

I don't have any predetermined idea of what fraction of gender dysphoric patients are motivated by eroticism, but I'm not about to assume that it must be zero because a non-scientific activist group put someone on a list of wrongthinkers.

 

[Thermal]

I don't have any predetermined idea of what fraction of gender dysphoric patients are motivated by eroticism, but I'm not about to assume that it must be zero because a non-scientific activist group put someone on a list of wrongthinkers.

This is the reason why... actually one of the reasons, because there are several... one of the many major reasons why we have trouble getting a constructive discussion going on is the above. We weren't talking about gender disphoric patients. Hadn't even mentioned them. It's not just moving the goalposts; it's a field goal range foul ball with a hockey puck hit by a pickleball racquet.

Eta: am I to assume by your snippage that we have an understanding about Frank's transness now, or will we be picking that back up randomly later?

 

[d4m10n]

We weren't talking about gender d[y]sphoric patients.

Someone asked for a "jaunt back into the real world of data and credible research" so naturally I turned back to the DSM as a starting point.

we have an understanding about Frank's transness now

If a man says that they really wanted to be a ladyboy (whether for erotic purposes or otherwise) then I'm going to assume they fell under the proverbial umbrella, at least for so long as that desire was still operative.