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The Truth about RFK Jr

Indeed, RFK Jr.'s model of American health seems to be some sort of false meritocracy. Everything except a medical casualty is somehow the product of one's own life choices and therefore should not be coddled or corrected. Human suffering can't possibly have anything to do, say, with people living longer and inevitably getting age-correlated chronic diseases that wouldn't have had time to develop in humans 500 years ago when they were dying in childbirth. It can't possibly have anything to do with desperation and privation created by wage inequality. It can't possibly have anything to do with the artificially astronomical cost of healthcare in the United States and the resulting disparate access to it.
 
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Planigale said:
RFK says new vaccines will be subject to placebo controlled trials.
www.bbc.co.uk

RFK Jr plans placebo-trial testing for 'all new vaccines'

Experts are alarmed by plans to require placebo testing for already approved shots like the covid vaccine.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Exactly which vaccines (but apparently not flu) will be studied is unclear. Using a placebo when there is a pre-existing effective vaccine would be unethical.
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"Unethical" describes a lot of the actions of the Trump administration and they simply do not care, especially when there are matters of right wing orthodoxy in play.
 
Planigale said:
RFK says new vaccines will be subject to placebo controlled trials.
www.bbc.co.uk

RFK Jr plans placebo-trial testing for 'all new vaccines'

Experts are alarmed by plans to require placebo testing for already approved shots like the covid vaccine.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Exactly which vaccines (but apparently not flu) will be studied is unclear. Using a placebo when there is a pre-existing effective vaccine would be unethical.
Click to expand...
Yep. Absolute stupidity.

Speaking of which, didn't MikeGriffiths1 have lots to say about this?
 
Planigale said:
RFK says new vaccines will be subject to placebo controlled trials.
www.bbc.co.uk

RFK Jr plans placebo-trial testing for 'all new vaccines'

Experts are alarmed by plans to require placebo testing for already approved shots like the covid vaccine.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Exactly which vaccines (but apparently not flu) will be studied is unclear. Using a placebo when there is a pre-existing effective vaccine would be unethical.
Click to expand...
Who needs medical ethics when you can move fast and break things kill people? Maybe we can look forward to his having another brainwave about how he's going to test all new medicines to find out what their lethal dose is.
 
Tero said:
I never knew. RFK Jr still believes in miasma theory

Real Anthony Fauci: Bill Gates, Big Pharma, and the Global War on Democracy and Public Health (Children’s Health Defense)​

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He called it miasma theory, but the Ars Technica article cited above argued that terrain theory might be closer to his beliefs: "In the chapter, Kennedy promotes the "miasma theory" but gets the definition completely wrong. Instead of actual miasma theory, he describes something more like terrain theory. He writes: "'Miasma theory' emphasizes preventing disease by fortifying the immune system through nutrition and by reducing exposures to environmental toxins and stresses."" I started a thread on Terrain Theory in the Conspiracies sub-forum.
 
In 2023 at SBM David Gorski covered the use of placebos in clinical trials. The entire article is worth reading, but here is a key passage: "Because the Salk polio vaccine was the first of its kind, science did require a placebo control (although an argument could have been made for using historical controls as a comparator), but there was a high cost. It is a cost that should never be considered lightly or accepted when not absolutely necessary. Again, ethics must always win out when designing an RCT [randomized controlled trial]. Antivaxxers think nothing of demanding massive clinical trials testing all potential combinations of vaccine ingredients against each other—and against a saline placebo, of course!—with no thought to ethics, potential harms to subjects, practicality, feasibility, and cost."

Also in 2023 co-inventor of a vaccine for the rotavirus, Paul Offit, wrote, "The casual cruelty expressed by ICAN’s lawyer can also be found in an event that occurred almost 70 years ago. In 1954, 420,000 first and second graders in the United States were inoculated with Jonas Salk’s inactivated polio vaccine; 200,000 were inoculated with salt water. It was one of the largest placebo-controlled trials of a medical product in history. Jonas Salk didn’t want to do it. He couldn’t conscience giving a saltwater shot to young children when as many as 50,000 were paralyzed by polio and 1,500 died every year. When the trial was over, the vaccine was declared “safe, effective, and potent.” Church bells rang out; synagogues held special prayer meetings; department store patrons stopped to listen to the results of the trial over loudspeakers. How did we know that Jonas Salk’s polio vaccine was effective? We knew because 16 children died from polio in that study—all in the placebo group. We knew because 34 of the 36 children paralyzed by polio in that study were in the placebo group. These are the gentle heroes we leave behind."
 
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Chris_Halkides said:
He called it miasma theory, but the Ars Technica article cited above argued that terrain theory might be closer to his beliefs: "In the chapter, Kennedy promotes the "miasma theory" but gets the definition completely wrong. Instead of actual miasma theory, he describes something more like terrain theory. He writes: "'Miasma theory' emphasizes preventing disease by fortifying the immune system through nutrition and by reducing exposures to environmental toxins and stresses."" I started a thread on Terrain Theory in the Conspiracies sub-forum.
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Chris, do we really expect a Grade A Numpty like RFK Jr to actually be able to distinguish between the different flavours of "Not Germ Theory"?

All he seems to know is "vaccines baaaaaaaaad!", "germs don't exist!".
 
Carrot Flower King said:
Chris, do we really expect a Grade A Numpty like RFK Jr to actually be able to distinguish between the different flavours of "Not Germ Theory"?

All he seems to know is "vaccines baaaaaaaaad!", "germs don't exist!".
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He actually seems to believe in a particular version of not germ theory. I think it's a common mistake for folks to make that their opposition is just dumb or ignorant. Often, intelligence and knowledge make the cranks better able to deny. If we come at them like they are just dumb, we will not convince anyone of anything.

ETA: Worth while for skeptics to keep in mind. Being smart and or well educated, can just make you better able to justify your pre-existing beliefs and if we knew what we were wrong about, we'd have already changed our minds. So, what are you wrong about?
 
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Carrot Flower King said:
Chris, do we really expect a Grade A Numpty like RFK Jr to actually be able to distinguish between the different flavours of "Not Germ Theory"?

All he seems to know is "vaccines baaaaaaaaad!", "germs don't exist!".
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I was not trying to be pedantic; I am sure that most of the participants of this thread accept germ theory, but I also think that ahhell made a good point. I am still trying to understand terrain theory myself, and I have not been able to muster the courage to wade into miasma theory.
 
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ahhell said:
He actually seems to believe in a particular version of not germ theory. I think it's a common mistake for folks to make that their opposition is just dumb or ignorant. Often, intelligence and knowledge make the cranks better able to deny. If we come at them like they are just dumb, we will not convince anyone of anything.

ETA: Worth while for skeptics to keep in mind. Being smart and or well educated, can just make you better able to justify your pre-existing beliefs and if we knew what we were wrong about, we'd have already changed our minds. So, what are you wrong about?
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When/if RFK Jr shows any sign of actually being "smart" or knowledeable about anything medical or scientific I shall acknowledge that.

However, after following his bletherings for over a decade, I have not seen any sign of either.

I am not a lawyer, especially a US-ian one, so am happy to accept that he knows a lot more than me about US law. However, his supposed "environmental" bit is closer to some of my areas of study and qualification, as are his "health" claims, so I am better placed to hold a view there. And also feel that the term "numpty" is entirely accurate.

ETA Or is "scientifically illiterate" and "utterly lacking in credibility" despite his expensive education and privileged upbringing better?
 
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ahhell said:
He actually seems to believe in a particular version of not germ theory. I think it's a common mistake for folks to make that their opposition is just dumb or ignorant. Often, intelligence and knowledge make the cranks better able to deny.
If we come at them like they are just dumb, we will not convince anyone of anything.
ETA: Worth while for skeptics to keep in mind. Being smart and or well educated, can just make you better able to justify your pre-existing beliefs and if we knew what we were wrong about, we'd have already changed our minds. So, what are you wrong about?
Click to expand...
As to the highlighted, I don't care how you come at RFK Jr., your not gonna convince him of anything regarding vaccines. This is true of all the anti-vaxxers of my acquaintance.
 
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