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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

Mycroft said:
If Danny Trejo walked into a women's bathroom and you screamed at him to get out, what do you think would happen?
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If he said he's a woman, and you are somewhere that uses self ID, then you get labelled a transphobe and possibly kicked out yourself.
 
Mycroft said:
To be fair, you don't really know the genitals of anyone you meet, unless you specifically look at their genitals.
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And yet, human beings know who is male and who is female to an extremely high degree of accuracy just fine without seeing any genitals at all.
 
Mycroft said:
I don't think this is honest at all. The whole anti-trans argument is what if they're not sincere and are just lying to gain access to women's only spaces.

If they're sincere then they just want to use the bathroom like everyone else and not bother anyone. If they're not sincere then they're just like Danny Trejo in lipstick looking to rape a cis-woman.
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And what if they are like Bryson? What should we do with him? You never answered my question about whether Bryson should be allowed into the women's bathroom.

This isn't a hypothetical. And the dishonest argument here is you avoiding it.
 
Mycroft said:
Letting puberty take its course is irreversible too.

A lot has been said in this thread about trans-people being easily distinguished from cis-people, but you're also stacking the deck against them by insisting the kids don't know anything and allowing puberty to take place.
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Puberty is a normal, natural process that humans are biologically programmed for. Transitioning is not, its an entirely artificial process that does real, irreversible medical harm.

80% of children grow out of the desire to change their gender. If all of them are encouraged to, and do transition, for four out of every five, its an irreversible mistake.

Ask yourself this... if less than 1% of the population are transgender, how is it that whole peer-groups are transitioning... and why are there suddenly far more girls transitioning than boys, when just a few years ago, its was the other way around.

Also, the numbers are collapsing. Gen Z numbers are falling off a cliff, and Gen α don't want a bar of it.
 
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Mycroft said:
Up-thread I was lectured about how women are shaped differently and one fellow told me he was uncomfortable for a day because he borrowed a woman's back-pack for a hike.

Of course there are men's and woman's clothing. There are entire industries dedicated to catering to the clothing needs of men and women. There is a store called "Men's Warehouse". Can you buy a dress there? No? It's an excellent place to buy a men's suit. There is a clothing store called "Lane Bryant" for larger women.

Even your own claim to never wear dresses, skirts or makeup while still being a woman affirms these are typical woman's clothing items.

Please don't feed me obvious bovine excrement.
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I know a guy (science fiction conventions) who wears dresses. Understated pastel flowery prints, quite simple cut, plain bodice and slightly gathered skirts. He must have them made to measure (or perhaps he's really good with a sewing machine) because there isn't a female person on the planet they would fit. Other than the dresses he seems to present masculine, to me. Short masculine haircut, no makeup, no jewellery.

Is he wearing women's clothes, or not?
 
Mycroft said:
I listen to women too. The women I listen to aren't bothered by transwomen in the woman's room.

What makes the women you listen to right and the women I listen to wrong?
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A sizeable number of people think that "trans woman" means a female who identifies as male. Another sizeable number of people think that "trans woman" solely means someone who has had surgery to remove some or all of their male genitalia - despite the fact that upwards of 80% of trans-identifying males never have any surgery or take cross-sex hormones. I am not suggesting that the women you speak to are labouring under either of those misapprehensions or any others, but it's important that any surveys, formal or informal, which are presented in this thread as support for the idea that women don't care if males are in single-sex spaces take into account that terminology may mean different things to different people.

In any case, the women to whom you speak cannot consent to males in female single-sex spaces on behalf of other women. They can only consent to it on their own behalf.

The issue of Muslim and Jewish women who are not permitted by their religion to be unclothed in spaces where men are, such as toilets and changing rooms, is still being ignored by the men's rights supporters in this thread, which is disappointing.
 
Agatha said:
The issue of Muslim and Jewish women who are not permitted by their religion to be unclothed in spaces where men are, such as toilets and changing rooms, is still being ignored by the men's rights supporters in this thread, which is disappointing.
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You shouldn’t call them men’s rights supporters. It implies a connection to other men’s rights issues such as divorce court issues, false paternity, etc, when there’s no connection at all.
 
Ziggurat said:
You shouldn’t call them men’s rights supporters. It implies a connection to other men’s rights issues such as divorce court issues, false paternity, etc, when there’s no connection at all.
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Fair comment, but the utterly blinkered determination to cede everything to the men and ignore women's concerns entirely does paint them as being wholly men-centred.
 
Thermal said:
You sure about that? Google says no they don't, but I haven't been in one in years.
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I have, because there are car chargers where McDonald's is the only practical food source nearby. You know what? I can't remember. Because it doesn't matter. Ladies, Women, F, a wee silhouette of someone wearing a skirt (even though I'm in trousers and the guy behind me might be wearing a kilt), it's all the same. Nobody thinks, oh it says women I can go in, but if it says F I can't. NOBODY AT ALL.
 
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Rolfe said:
Fair comment, but the utterly blinkered determination to cede everything to the men and ignore women's concerns entirely does paint them as being wholly men-centred.
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Oh, I absolutely agree about that. I just don’t want that male centeredness to be conflated with other men’s issues.
 
Agatha said:
A sizeable number of people think that "trans woman" means a female who identifies as male. Another sizeable number of people think that "trans woman" solely means someone who has had surgery to remove some or all of their male genitalia - despite the fact that upwards of 80% of trans-identifying males never have any surgery or take cross-sex hormones. I am not suggesting that the women you speak to are labouring under either of those misapprehensions or any others, but it's important that any surveys, formal or informal, which are presented in this thread as support for the idea that women don't care if males are in single-sex spaces take into account that terminology may mean different things to different people.

In any case, the women to whom you speak cannot consent to males in female single-sex spaces on behalf of other women. They can only consent to it on their own behalf.

The issue of Muslim and Jewish women who are not permitted by their religion to be unclothed in spaces where men are, such as toilets and changing rooms, is still being ignored by the men's rights supporters in this thread, which is disappointing.
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People live in bubbles, inevitably. But some bubbles in America are rather more bubbly than others, shall we say. Scotland is a bubble, but this issue is one that a lot of people are inevitably talking about. Discussion is widespread. I've yet to encounter anything but relief from women and support from men when discussing recent developments. There's no doubt at all that properly-weighted opinion polls (around here at least) now show a majority of women opposed to men being allowed into women's single-sex spaces of any kind, and that opinion has significantly shifted in recent years as public awareness of what a "transwoman" actually is (a man who says he's a woman, with no other requirements) and the toxic, demanding, bullying nature of the "trans rights" demands.

It will always be possible to find a handmaiden or two willing to cede everything to males for a few woke Brownie points, and it will be easier in some bubbles than others. But saying "well, some women don't mind" is pointless. These handmaidens do not, or certainly should not, have the right to open the doors of our intimate spaces to men, on behalf of all woman - many of whom, obviously, are very distressed by this. Plus the religious minority women.
 
I can't find the reference right now, but I did find one particular opinion poll interesting. Early in the questions, there were two or three simple, bald questions about trans rights. Young women in particular were very free in checking the box to allow "transwomen" into women's toilets and changing rooms. Then the questions got more explanatory, making it clear that a transwoman was a man (not a woman who wanted to be a man), and that the vast majority were sexually intact, and that there was no requirement at all for one to alter his appearance in any way to be considered a transwoman.

By the later part of the questionnaire, these very same young women who had been 75% to 80% absolutely OK with trans rights to enter whichever bathroom they chose, were now voting by about the same percentage to keep them out.
 
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