Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[d4m10n]

Do you acknowledge any difference between being gender inclusive as your own priority and "appeasing gender activists"?

For all we know the organizing board was steered by a small but vocal minority; wouldn't be the first time.

The reason I brought up this specific skeptical event and their bathrooms in the first place was to show that activism on behalf of trans & GNC folx does in fact intersect the movement for neutral bathrooms.

 

[d4m10n]

Why do you assume activists were involved?

Skeptical conventions like this one are put together by skeptical activists volunteering their own time and effort.

 

[Thermal]

For all we know the organizing board was steered by a small but vocal minority; wouldn't be the first time.

And for all we know it wasn't. It was Skepticon, so being skeptical, how should we answer your query?

The reason I brought up this specific skeptical event and their bathrooms in the first place was to show that activism on behalf of trans & GNC folx does in fact intersect the movement for neutral bathrooms.

Ok.

 

[Thermal]

Skeptical conventions like this one are put together by skeptical activists volunteering their own time and effort.

Skeptical activists, yes, agreed. I think you're making a totally unwarranted leap over to 'and therefore Skepticon was infiltrated by/ appeasing trans rights activists'.

 

[d4m10n]

I think you're making a totally unwarranted leap over to 'and therefore Skepticon was infiltrated by/ appeasing trans rights activists'.

Did you read their own explanation about why they took the trouble to degender the multiuser restrooms closest to the main stage?

I make decisions all the time without considering special interest lobbies.

Do you write up justifications for your decisions in terms of the special interests to be served thereby?

 

[smartcooky]

Sounds like the one I went to, which was in Birmingham. I don't know anyone who objects to there being unisex or even mixed-sex toilets, so ;ong as single-sex ones are also available.

None of us object, but certain posters insist that we do, when the only people who actually object to unisex toilets are TRAs

 

[Rolfe]

None of us object, but certain posters insist that we do, when the only people who actually object to unisex toilets are TRAs

In this case it was a but disconcerting that the mixed-sex toilets were the main ones on the main floor, but once one had one's bearings it wasn't a problem. (The only problem is that the Gents' single-sex toilet turned out to be architecturally interesting, and the women couldn't get to see it!)

 

[Rolfe]

This is good.

Sex has always meant biological sex

The Supreme Court delivers a seismic ruling on equality law

knowingius.org

I particularly liked this bit.



It also turns out that previous case law had already decided that surgery and hormones don't turn someone into the opposite sex, and that for cases where someone's sex is in dispute (such as a DSD) then evidence requires to be presented to determine which it is.

And this is particularly relevant in the context of Darat's snide remarks about the Court spending so long on the question of whether a GRC was required to qualify for the protected category of gender reassignment.

 

[Thermal]

Did you read their own explanation about why they took the trouble to degender the multiuser restrooms closest to the main stage?

No, I didn't see any qualifiers specifically about the restrooms closest to the main stage, but am receptive to direction.

Do you write up justifications for your decisions in terms of the special interests to be served thereby?

No. Why do you ask?

"We kinda want to be inclusive to everybody" is not exactly laden with hot-button buzzwords.

 

[Rolfe]

It would be nice if all this inclusivity included facilities for both males and females who for reasons of propriety, modesty and decency do not wish to share sanitary provisions with the opposite sex.

 

[Thermal]

It would be nice if we didn't have people trying to shove those tranny weirdos back in the closet where they belong, but ya can't have everything.

 

[Rolfe]

Your language is pretty unpleasant, but, your choice.

Also, in the context we're discussing, I see no reason why it isn't possible to have everything.

 

[Ziggurat]

It would be nice if we didn't have people trying to shove those tranny weirdos back in the closet where they belong, but ya can't have everything.

Please explain to me why having transwomen using the men’s bathroom constitutes shoving them back in the closet.

 

[Thermal]

Your language is pretty unpleasant, but, your choice.

Also, in the context we're discussing, I see no reason why it isn't possible to have everything.

Your twitter posts are utterly revolting, but as you say, your choice as well.

AsI understand the Skepticon arrangement, it was mens and womens rooms but they ask that you be adult about a nonconforming occupant. I believe it was posted that they also had single sex bathrooms?

I wonder if they had issues there? Like, were people screaming that there was a bio female in the mens room and how dare she? Or if maybe...just maybe... there was no actual problem?

 

[Thermal]

Please explain to me why having transwomen using the men’s bathroom constitutes shoving them back in the closet.

They have been shoved into the closet of the mens room for years. They say "hey you know we feel like women, we would feel a lot less ostracized if we could use the ladies room instead of having guys giving us a hard time?" and they get met with "I want a law to keep these weirdos out of here!"

Yeah, there's a closet thing going on here.

 

[Myriad]

Please explain to me why having transwomen using the men’s bathroom constitutes shoving them back in the closet.

The water closet. Really, the whole problem begins with the puritanical proscription of public urination, which denies everyone's right to exist. We argue about which opaque box we should shamefully hide in to perform this necessary natural function, when we should be united in washing away such dehumanizing tyranny in a glorious golden tide.

 

[Rolfe]

Please explain to me why having transwomen using the men’s bathroom constitutes shoving them back in the closet.

In fact, I was suggesting that as well as having mixed-sex provisions, single-sex facilities should also be provided.

I've never seen anyone on the gender-critical side oppose the provision of unisex or mixed-sex facilities as well as single-sex, but the pro-trans lobby seems adamantly opposed to us having anything at all, even after their darlings are fully catered-for.

 

[Rolfe]

Your twitter posts are utterly revolting, but as you say, your choice as well.

AsI understand the Skepticon arrangement, it was mens and womens rooms but they ask that you be adult about a nonconforming occupant. I believe it was posted that they also had single sex bathrooms?

I wonder if they had issues there? Like, were people screaming that there was a bio female in the mens room and how dare she? Or if maybe...just maybe... there was no actual problem?

No. I am not being "adult" about a man in a women-only space. I am asking that after your darling trans people have been given everything they want and demand, that some provision for those of us who do not wish to share sanitary facilities with the opposite sex should also be provided. Otherwise all this boasting about including everyone is so much hot air and lies.

 

[Ziggurat]

They have been shoved into the closet of the mens room for years.

Time scale isn’t relevant to my question.

They say "hey you know we feel like women, we would feel a lot less ostracized if we could use the ladies room instead of having guys giving us a hard time?" and they get met with "I want a law to keep these weirdos out of here!"

Not catering to their feelings constitutes shoving them in the closet? That’s a low bar. What then are we to make of the feelings of women who do not want obviously male people in their bathrooms? Are they being shoved in a closet too? Or are their feelings not important? Or just less important, because they’re women?

 

[Ziggurat]

In fact, I was suggesting that as well as having mixed-sex provisions, single-sex facilities should also be provided.

I am in no way opposed to that, but sometimes it is not practical or economical.