Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

[Stacyhs]

Well we can never know what people are secretly thinking so it is best to go by objective facts.

And yet, you treat us to your opinion on what Sollecito and Knox were supposedly thinking quite often. Like the time you tried to explain why they never got rid of the bathmat: they wanted to 'get one over' on the police because they thought they were 'smarter'.

As the onus is on the police and the prosecutor to build up a case and show probable cause in order to charge anyone (in the UK this would be 'Reasonable Prospect of Success' [in gaining a conviction]). Given the pair were not charged for another eight months, it matters not a jot who suspected whom on Day One.

Rubbish. This is just your need to handwave away the fact that they did, in fact, suspect them from the beginning. Remember "Caso chiuso!" and hanging their photos up in the 'rogues gallery' at the station.
In the US, a person must be charged within 24 hours or released. In the UK, it's also 24 hours or up to 96 for very serious crimes. Certainly NOT for months! It's done to protect people from circumstances like AK's and RS's: being held for months with the defense not even knowing what charges they needed to defend.

It should be readily apparent that the first thought would be a stranger (male, given the sexual assault) who could strike again at any time in a town full of university students from all over the world.

Why a 'stranger'? Most sexual assaults are not by strangers. Mignini declared that "only a woman would cover the body" so he wasn't only looking for a male.

You're trying to have it both ways: either Knox suspiciously had "insider knowledge" before the autopsy that Kercher had been sexually assaulted OR it was just as 'readily apparent' to her as it was to the police.

It would be totally irresponsible to focus on some random person just because you took a dislike to them, as the PIP are claiming Mignini did.

It is irresponsible, but it certainly happens. Napoleoni, for one, was hostile to Knox from the beginning.
Please stop claiming that Knox was just 'some random person'. How many times do you have to be provided the evidence that Mignini himself said he suspected her starting from her being kissed by Sollecito to having a break-down the next day?
You have a great talent for only remembering that which supports you narrative and for forgetting anything that doesn't.

 

[AnimalFriendly]

Errr, Knox confirmed her room was dark without the light switched on.


The local shopkeeper Quintavalli, confirmed under oath a girl matching Knox' description came in at opening time and hung around the cleaning fluids section. He took note because it was unusual for a student-type to be up so early, especially on a Bank Holiday morning. The pair got up at 5:00am and played heavy metal and Fight Club but told the police they didn't wake up until 10:00.


Police found huge bottles of freshly used ACE bleach under Sollecito's sink. Bleach had been used to try to cover up the footprints - other than Guede's - in the hallway of the murder cottage.



I am out now, as I am not used to rough language.




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Why would she need to "confirm" this? To anyone? From layouts of the cottage I've seen, it appears that her room did have a window. It was daylight. That's not getting dressed "in the dark".

Despite the discredited Quintavalli junk which has already been dissected at least 10 times here, you don't address the contradiction of claiming they were "up all night" mopping & cleaning but that they also "got up" at 5:00 AM. There could be a video of a truck unloading a pallet of bleach at Sollecito's apartment and it wouldn't explain how anyone could distinguish Guede's prints, in a separate location, from the rest of the Perugian population. And never mind that I did not remotely ask about footprints anyway. I asked about the bathMAT. If it had a "great bloody footprint" on it, why was it left in plain view? If I were performing a "clean-up", I would have pitched a bloody bathmat into the nearest roaring fire.

What rough language?

 

[Vixen]

Knox and Sollecito had nothing to do with the murder. Guede acted alone.

You are welcome to believe whatever you wish. Nobody is going to stop you. In the meantime, the truth remains unchanged.



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[Vixen]

And yet, you treat us to your opinion on what Sollecito and Knox were supposedly thinking quite often. Like the time you tried to explain why they never got rid of the bathmat: they wanted to 'get one over' on the police because they thought they were 'smarter'.

Rubbish. This is just your need to handwave away the fact that they did, in fact, suspect them from the beginning. Remember "Caso chiuso!" and hanging their photos up in the 'rogues gallery' at the station.
In the US, a person must be charged within 24 hours or released. In the UK, it's also 24 hours or up to 96 for very serious crimes. Certainly NOT for months! It's done to protect people from circumstances like AK's and RS's: being held for months with the defense not even knowing what charges they needed to defend.

Why a 'stranger'? Most sexual assaults are not by strangers. Mignini declared that "only a woman would cover the body" so he wasn't only looking for a male.

You're trying to have it both ways: either Knox suspiciously had "insider knowledge" before the autopsy that Kercher had been sexually assaulted OR it was just as 'readily apparent' to her as it was to the police.


It is irresponsible, but it certainly happens. Napoleoni, for one, was hostile to Knox from the beginning.
Please stop claiming that Knox was just 'some random person'. How many times do you have to be provided the evidence that Mignini himself said he suspected her starting from her being kissed by Sollecito to having a break-down the next day?
You have a great talent for only remembering that which supports you narrative and for forgetting anything that doesn't.

Only within the context of criminal law. Let's face it, a random burglar isn't going to bother covering the body they will just flee ASAP. Nor would such a perp have the key to the room to lock it from the outside. Nor would they bother to fetch Knox' lamp from her room to place under Kercher's bed. Or throw Filomena's clothes around and THEN break the window, with glass sprinkled over it. Nor would they go to the trouble of placing a vaseline jar by the body as a prop.

Nobody said the police were nice guys. I don't know why you keep going on about how horrid Napoleoni was.



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[Vixen]

Why would she need to "confirm" this? To anyone? From layouts of the cottage I've seen, it appears that her room did have a window. It was daylight. That's not getting dressed "in the dark".

Despite the discredited Quintavalli junk which has already been dissected at least 10 times here, you don't address the contradiction of claiming they were "up all night" mopping & cleaning but that they also "got up" at 5:00 AM. There could be a video of a truck unloading a pallet of bleach at Sollecito's apartment and it wouldn't explain how anyone could distinguish Guede's prints, in a separate location, from the rest of the Perugian population. And never mind that I did not remotely ask about footprints anyway. I asked about the bathMAT. If it had a "great bloody footprint" on it, why was it left in plain view? If I were performing a "clean-up", I would have pitched a bloody bathmat into the nearest roaring fire.

What rough language?

Knox was asked about the lamp she confirmed her room was dark unless she switched it on. She was being questioned as to how come she didn't notice it was missing. Given she'd just had a shower and had to dress in the semi-dark.


.Perhaps the perp didn't realise the forensic police had personnel able to analyse footprints and shoe prints. To the naked eye, it was just a blob.



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[Stacyhs]

How about the fact Knox tore out all the pages in her diary for the week leading up to the murder?

Oh, dear. It was a notebook and the missing pages began in early October, not the last week according to Follain. The last date written down is Sept. 25 and 26. The last pages #91-159 contain Italian grammar exercises, DJ's phone number, birthdays list and a list of gifts to buy for family and friends, including Meredith. Why Follain claims the missing pages date from 'early October' onward only he knows as nothing is dated past late September. I suspect you claim "the week leading up to the murder" because it sounds so much more insidious.

Detectives seized a diary with a light green cover that she had begun in August and which they found in her bag; the last pages, from early October onwards, had been ripped out.

(Follain, John. A Death in Italy: The Definitive Account of the Amanda Knox Case )

This is the last page of the green notebook. So it wasn't a diary and pages she did homework on or just things she didn't need to keep could have been torn out. But, per usual, you have to spin it to make it look as suspicious as possible.

 

[Stacyhs]

You forgot to mention the sheet. You know, the one they were dragging the body along with towards the wardrobe...? I wonder why you left that out? It indicates a conscious effort to cover up an incriminating fact, because, after all, a random burglar would just be out of there, not hanging around trying to clean up and hide the body.


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Quote and cite that Kercher was lying on a sheet. Unless you can do that, the rest of your comment has no basis in fact.

 

[Stacyhs]

It is a fact entered into evidence.



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And, as I've shown, there was nothing suspicious about it. Amanda was asked about the green notebook during her June 12-13 testimony but no one, including the prosecution, asked her about the torn-out pages. Can you guess why?

 

[Stacyhs]

Errr, Knox confirmed her room was dark without the light switched on.

Errr, false. She said there was plenty of light during the day. From her testimony:

FM: To get to your room, to get to the window, you walked in the dark?
AK: But it wasn't dark in my room. Often --

AK: All right. Usually I only turned on that little lamp at night. Really at night, or in the evening, when I wanted to...So I didn't even think of turning it on. It really wasn't dark in my room when I went in.
GCM: It wasn't dark, but where was the light coming from? Natural light?
AK: Natural.
GCM: And what window was it coming from, this natural light?
AK: I only have one window, but it was also coming from the other side because there's a balcony.

So there's yet another claim disproved.

The local shopkeeper Quintavalli, confirmed under oath a girl matching Knox' description came in at opening time and hung around the cleaning fluids section. He took note because it was unusual for a student-type to be up so early, especially on a Bank Holiday morning.

Sigh. And yet a year earlier, within a couple weeks of the murder, he made no mention of seeing Knox at his store despite Insp. Volturno specifically asking him if he'd seen Knox or Sollecito at his store and if they'd bought bleach. Quintavalle said he'd only ever seen Knox with Sollecito, always together, in the week preceding the murder. That's been pointed out to you many, many times yet you ignore it completely.

The pair got up at 5:00am and played heavy metal and Fight Club but told the police they didn't wake up until 10:00.

False. So now, Knox also got up? That's a new one! Knox said she got up, not woke up, around 10:00. Sollecito said he woke up when she did but rolled over and went back to sleep.

This entire bit about him getting up early to listen to music and not mentioning it to police is a perfect example of turning everything into evidence of guilt. Did he leave the apartment? No. So why in the hell would he think it was relevant to the murder? It's a relevant as telling them he got up to take a piss during the night.

Police found huge bottles of freshly used ACE bleach under Sollecito's sink.

Um....no. 1) "Huge" is not a one-liter bottle and 2) the "freshly used" bit is something you just made up out of thin air.
His former maid, Ana Chiriboga, testified that there were one full bottle and one half-full bottle of ACE bleach when she left months before before the murder. The confiscated bleach contained one full and one half-full bottle of ACE bleach.
Maybe Chiriboga is also 'bent' or just trying to 'help him out of a tough situation', too?

Bleach had been used to try to cover up the footprints - other than Guede's - in the hallway of the murder cottage.

False.
1) there were INTACT footprints in the hallway. Since when would wiping footprints with bleach leave them INTACT?
2) Luminol reveals any attempt to clean up blood by showing the smear/wiping patterns.

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I am out now, as I am not used to rough language.

Hmmmm...is "rough language" really why you're out? Or, just maybe because you know what you just claimed about the bleach is provably false?

 

[Stacyhs]

Yes, Knox, Guede and Sollecito scaring Mez and hazing her for thrills must have been really hilarious for people of that mindset.

I am so glad I don't find it at all amusing.

Please just stop with the feigned outrage and virtue signaling over something you just fabricated.

 

[Stacyhs]

I'm afraid the post-mortem shows it did happen.



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False. There were several experts that disagreed with the multiple killers theory. But, you just handwave that away.

 

[Stacyhs]

I hate what happened to Mez. I had to leave this thread fourteen years ago because just thinking of her last minutes on earth made me cry.

I still can't shake that feeling, but I had to come back because I hate the way the guilters make it seem like we don't care about her or think we're siding with murderers. They're the real Darkness in this tragedy.

FYI, I read the book about the murder (can't remember the name off hand, sorry) that was really biased, and I came here to find out the truth.

I learned a lot about DNA from some real experts and ALL OF IT made me realize that something stinky was definitely going on in Italy.

Really biased? That sounds like Barbie Nadeau's book. And I use the term 'book' loosely.

 

[Stacyhs]

Only within the context of criminal law.

What's "Only within the context of criminal law"? That as vague as possible.

Let's face it, a random burglar isn't going to bother covering the body they will just flee ASAP.

That does not address Mignini's claim that "Only woman would cover the body". And your claim about what a 'random burglar' would or would not do is not supported by evidence.
Besides, Guede wasn't a 'random burglar'; he knew Meredith.

Nor would such a perp have the key to the room to lock it from the outside.

He would if he'd stolen her keys after killing her. How else do you think he got out the front door? Sheesh.

Nor would they bother to fetch Knox' lamp from her room to place under Kercher's bed.

1) There is no evidence that the lamp was not in Kercher's bedroom before the murder.
2) It was not "placed" under the bed; it was knocked under it during the struggle.
You NEVER, EVER allow for any non-guilty scenario.

Why fetch Knox's lamp in the first place when they could have turned on the wall light and used Kercher's lamp?

Or throw Filomena's clothes around and THEN break the window, with glass sprinkled over it.

You mean the glass she saw on top and BELOW items? You really think two people who stahed a burglary would tell the police nothing had been stolen? LOL!

Nor would they go to the trouble of placing a vaseline jar by the body as a prop.

OMG...that's a new one! And here I thought I'd heard all the rubbish. By the way, it wasn't a 'jar'; it was a small pot used for lips. As described in the police evidence photos #6894:

"una confezioine metallica tascabile di vaselina "LIP THERAPY" priva de contenuto ma con il fondo unto"

"a pocket-sized metallic Vaseline packaging "LIP THERAPY" without content but with greasy bottom"

Nobody said the police were nice guys. I don't know why you keep going on about how horrid Napoleoni was.

I think you know exactly why: her own criminal conviction (with several of her subordinates) for abusing her police powers to harass and intimidate a court psychologist reveals her willingness to break the law.

 

[Stacyhs]

Knox was asked about the lamp she confirmed her room was dark unless she switched it on. She was being questioned as to how come she didn't notice it was missing. Given she'd just had a shower and had to dress in the semi-dark.

Why do you do continue to lie about this? I've already quoted and cited her testimony. She said she only turned on her lamp AT NIGHT and that she had plenty of natural light from her window and the hallway at 10:30-11:00 in the morning.

.Perhaps the perp didn't realise the forensic police had personnel able to analyse footprints and shoe prints. To the naked eye, it was just a blob.

The why would they have needed to clean up any prints with bleach as you claimed?

Bleach had been used to try to cover up the footprints - other than Guede's - in the hallway of the murder cottage.

That's your comment #2906. Perhaps you're just making up excuses for something you can't give a plausible and logical answer to. You can't even keep your own narrative consistent.

 

[Stacyhs]

I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence that Kercher was lying on a sheet.

 

[AnimalFriendly]

Knox was asked about the lamp she confirmed her room was dark unless she switched it on. She was being questioned as to how come she didn't notice it was missing. Given she'd just had a shower and had to dress in the semi-dark.


.Perhaps the perp didn't realise the forensic police had personnel able to analyse footprints and shoe prints. To the naked eye, it was just a blob.



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Nobody dresses in the "semi-dark" during mid-morning in a room with a window. Stacyhs provided the actual testimony re: this above so read it.

The perp? Yeah, Guede was the only perp & he didn't perform any clean-up. I've seen pictures of the mat. It wasn't just a blob.

 

[Vixen]

Errr, false. She said there was plenty of light during the day. From her testimony:




So there's yet another claim disproved.


Sigh. And yet a year earlier, within a couple weeks of the murder, he made no mention of seeing Knox at his store despite Insp. Volturno specifically asking him if he'd seen Knox or Sollecito at his store and if they'd bought bleach. Quintavalle said he'd only ever seen Knox with Sollecito, always together, in the week preceding the murder. That's been pointed out to you many, many times yet you ignore it completely.

False. So now, Knox also got up? That's a new one! Knox said she got up, not woke up, around 10:00. Sollecito said he woke up when she did but rolled over and went back to sleep.

This entire bit about him getting up early to listen to music and not mentioning it to police is a perfect example of turning everything into evidence of guilt. Did he leave the apartment? No. So why in the hell would he think it was relevant to the murder? It's a relevant as telling them he got up to take a piss during the night.


Um....no. 1) "Huge" is not a one-liter bottle and 2) the "freshly used" bit is something you just made up out of thin air.
His former maid, Ana Chiriboga, testified that there were one full bottle and one half-full bottle of ACE bleach when she left months before before the murder. The confiscated bleach contained one full and one half-full bottle of ACE bleach.
Maybe Chiriboga is also 'bent' or just trying to 'help him out of a tough situation', too?


False.
1) there were INTACT footprints in the hallway. Since when would wiping footprints with bleach leave them INTACT?
2) Luminol reveals any attempt to clean up blood by showing the smear/wiping patterns.


Hmmmm...is "rough language" really why you're out? Or, just maybe because you know what you just claimed about the bleach is provably false?

Nice try! I think you missed your vocation as a defence attorney. Actually, the cleaner told the police she was ordered to use only the disinfectant type of cleaner by Sollecito's father who used the same method for his surgery. Lysoform is what she was told to use.


It was only after the Sollecito family applied pressure on her that she changed her story.





You still haven't explained how come Knox didn't notice her lamp was missing, or why it was under MK's bed behind locked doors...?


In any case it is quite futile to keep arguing the facts as the panel of judges and lay judges upheld the prosecution's case and found the defendants proven guilty as charged, as did the Nencini Appeal Court and these are the facts that remain on legal records.

The pair only got off because of Bongiorno's contacts as a mafia-client barrister who also got Andreotti off mafia charges under the little known and little used 'insufficient evidence' provisio by sneaking in a 360-report prepared by innocence advocate Gill who didn't testify, evaded cross-examination and whose own report was based on defence advocates Conti & Vecchiottis own bent report for the corrupt and inexpert Hellmann. Bent, because they were supposed to be independent - and Supreme Court judge, Chieffi, was baffled as to why they were appointed at all as they were certainly no better than the ones appointed by Massei - and were also caught by the Carabinieri of advocating for the defence behind the Court's back. So the pair got off on a legal loophole, as used by politicians such as Andreotti and the thoroughly bent Berlusconi.

This is all thanks to the Sollecito 'family' <ahem> as it were.


But the facts of the merits trial remain. No point in your putting your 'alternative explanations' as they didn't wash with the courts then and they don't now. If there was a problem with the facts of the matter, the Supreme Court had the power to send it back down - as per convention - directing the court to revisit the matter in dispute.


But in fact Marasca-Bruno's MR is pretty damning of the pair, Knox in particular.



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[Vixen]

I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence that Kercher was lying on a sheet.

Er, you don't know about the bedsheet...? Or that the body was dragged towards the closet?


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[Vixen]

Nobody dresses in the "semi-dark" during mid-morning in a room with a window. Stacyhs provided the actual testimony re: this above so read it.

The perp? Yeah, Guede was the only perp & he didn't perform any clean-up. I've seen pictures of the mat. It wasn't just a blob.

Only in your alternative universe. A qualified scientist and forensic engineer identofied the footprint in blood as Sollecito's. In particular, the hammer toe which is astonishingly rare but matche Sollecito's perfectly, as were the dimensions of his size 42 foot. There is no evidence Gued ever took off his size 45 trainers as we can see one set of his footprints header straight towards the front door from Mez' room. There is no indication he turned to lock the door on his way out. But we do see Sollecito's feet highlighted by luminol - so they would have been blood-soaked feet - facing Mez' bedroom door. This is scientific. Your opinion is pure knee-jerk denial of an observable and measurable fact.

But you prefer fantasy and I won't stop you.


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[Disbelief]

You are welcome to believe whatever you wish. Nobody is going to stop you. In the meantime, the truth remains unchanged.



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And the truth is that Knox and Sollecito have been acquitted and Guede was not.