Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
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I don't expect the data to be different from my lived experience, partly because you say you have looked at it and it agrees with my lived experience.
Transwomen are not Women - Part 15
- Thread starter d4m10n
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I don't expect the data to be different from my lived experience, partly because you say you have looked at it and it agrees with my lived experience.
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
If you don't want me making assumptions about your position, it would be helpful if you answered simple T/F questions about your position.
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
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IIRC they did some lewd things in addition to just being there. If they had stayed in the hot tub and not drawn attention to themselves, they probably would have gone unnoticed.
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
IIRC nope.
You have a really insufferably high opinion of yourself. Why should your unsupported anecdotes be given any credibility at all?
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
It is TRAs who act more like Nazis in their response to gender critical speakers.
- Cancelling
- Social Media rage mobs
- Blackmailing host venues with threats of violence and vandalism
- Letter-writing campaigns to employers and peers
- Threats of legal action
- Threats of violence
- Death threats against persons and their families
These are the 'nice, cuddly, harmless' people that you and Mycroft are supporting, whether you realize it or not.
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Thermal
August Member
I don't know about that states rights. I was briefly acquainted with mine, when I was charged with simple assault for merely standing on a property, not saying a word except to politely answer a question put to me, and I was on that property with the owners permission. My literal presence was found meritorious enough to allow the charge (which ultimately failed).
Yes, Virginia, you can be threatening even when you are doing everything within your "rights".
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
No one really does until Merager puts forward an affirmative defense rooted in California Civil Code Section 51, at which point we'll find out whether CA civil rights law demands what Wi Spa believed it does.
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d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
“She was within the women's section, which, you know, is exactly where she should be,” said Jae Red Rose.
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
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I may not remember correctly, but in looking for answers I found it may be a hoax.
Violence Over an Alleged Transphobic Hoax Shows the Danger of Underestimating Anti-Trans Hate
Police reportedly suspect the viral L.A. Wi Spa video is fake—but it still got two people stabbed.
Alleged Trans incident at upscale LA Spa may have been staged
The video quickly made the rounds in far right, and Trans-Exclusionary Feminist (TERF) sites and Anti-trans “feminist” websites.
www.losangelesblade.com
Thermal
August Member
Soooo... all that bickering and demanding to say what the relevant rights was...?
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
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I think your perception of incidents of trans-women attacking women in woman’s bathrooms is exaggerated due to your haunting of anti-trans websites where those incidents are cherry-picked and presented to you.
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
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You are free not to believe my anecdotes.
At the same time, I present them for what they are. My personal lived experience where I gather the opinions of others.
If you want to tell me women see this as a woman's rights issue, I'm going to talk to some women about it. If I can't find some women who see it that way or if an overwhelming majority are not bothered by transwomen in a woman's room, them that will make me very skeptical of claims to the contrary.
I suggest you ask some women of your own. I've been avoiding women from my social circle and have been asking women I meet but don't know. I also suggest you avoid using the internet for this.
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
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Poor behavior on one side or another doesn't change the fundamentals. Try to concentrate on those.
Thermal
August Member
OK, getting super bored with the repetition on this point, so I'm going to belabor it a bit:
You know my basic position. Sex segregated spaces are unfortunately necessary. We can't all just get along, because rapists and assaulters are in fact overwhelmingly male, and exploiting this opportunity is inevitable, yada yada yada, My 'what' we have to do has been pretty firmly established.
And despite this thread having the reputation of being the forum cesspool, I engaged in the discussion, because as always, I'm interested in the 'why' as much as the 'what' to do. So I'm poking around in the grayer areas of the rationalizations. And you know what? The argumentation here is so godawful horrific that you guys are literally turning my opinion around.
So if my position seems 'internally inconsistent and self contradictory", it's because all y'all are forcing me to rethink why I was confident in my assumptions. I'm still trying to balance it out, but you guys have collectively convinced me that your base assumptions are powerfully wrong.
One of my favorite quotes, attributed to Winston Churchhill: Never, never never give up.
And it doesn't need to make everyone happy. We've got therapy for that. It needs to *work*, and do the best we can with treating everyone fairly.
Thermal
August Member
Fears? Not at all valid. Concerns? Very much so. Being defensive and alert =/= being whacked out paranoid about boogeymen between your ears.
Way back in the pay phone days, I walked up to a row of them to make a call. There was a lone young woman using another phone. Dark, deserted, the works. She screamed "DON"T TOUCH ME" as I got near her, and I calmly said I just needed to make a call on one of those unused phones next to her.
By your reasoning, she had every reason to be afraid. But you are wrong. She had nothing to fear, and as long as I was around, she was far safer than she could imagine. Her fear was 100% between her ears. There was never a threat, even though she imagined one mightily. She could probably have cooked up scenarios where there could have been something to be afraid of. But that doesn't change the fact that her cardiac arrest was wholly imaginary. And that's basically what the argumentation here has been.
Thermal
August Member
That's really interesting. The spa was LGBTQ friendly, and actually had a client list of trans clients, none of whom were there that day (it's a members only place). So a trans person there was not out of the ordinary at all? The offender apparently just walked in under false pretenses and exposed himself, like his previous arrest record indicates. That's why the judge threw out the 'transphobe' defense- the guy wasn't actually trans.I may not remember correctly, but in looking for answers I found it may be a hoax.
Violence Over an Alleged Transphobic Hoax Shows the Danger of Underestimating Anti-Trans Hate
Police reportedly suspect the viral L.A. Wi Spa video is fake—but it still got two people stabbed.slate.com
Alleged Trans incident at upscale LA Spa may have been staged
The video quickly made the rounds in far right, and Trans-Exclusionary Feminist (TERF) sites and Anti-trans “feminist” websites.
Thermal
August Member
Your question keeps asking about rights, which are not determined, and at this time don't interest me much. To keep it mo meaningless, you ask not to make a distinction between moral and legal rights. So nah, it wouldn't be helpful at all to reanswer.
You sure? Can I be nude in my home, alone, on my private property? I think we could agree on that.
Now can I pull the window blinds open and throw the lights on at night in front of a busy sidewalk?
What decision allowed his entry to the spa?