Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Emily's Cat]

No, I do care, and I think you know that. But we are questioning how valid those fears are. Are they real, or largely imaginary? How do they play out in the stats?

How valid are the fears of females who see a strange male in a dark alley? How valid are the fears of a female who doesn't want to leave their drink unattended in a bar? How valid are the fears of a female who gets uncomfortable when a male won't take no for an answer at a nightclub, and follows them when they head for the door? How valid are the fears of a female who checks for hidden cameras in the toilet? How valid are the fears of a female who never goes to a party without a friend?

How valid are the fears that females hold toward males that they don't know very well?

 

[Thermal]

Wi Spa controversy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Jesus christ, it's about time. Thought this would never get brought up.

So ok. In a nation of a third of a billion, you have one incident of one individual, who hurt no one but was nude in a spa full of nude people (female). This guy had a conviction record of indecent exposure, and that's what he was charged with here. The judge told him.to shove his transphobe arguments, he was getting prosecuted.

Regarding my 99.999%, that is way too conservative an estimate if that's all ya got on that front. You quite literally made my point for me.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Our society seems to be going backwards in many ways.

I agree. Our society is actively trying to destroy the rights of females. They're trying to remove our right to control our own reproduction, and they're simultaneously trying to destroy our ability to talk about ourselves as distinct from males. And they're trying to remove our right to deny consent to males who wish to see us naked, or who wish to expose themselves to us. Society is going backwards, and punishing females for telling males "no".

 

[Emily's Cat]

Jesus christ, it's about time. Thought this would never get brought up.

So ok. In a nation of a third of a billion, you have one incident of one individual, who hurt no one but was nude in a spa full of nude people (female). This guy had a conviction record of indecent exposure, and that's what he was charged with here. The judge told him.to shove his transphobe arguments, he was getting prosecuted.

Regarding my 99.999%, that is way too conservative an estimate if that's all ya got on that front. You quite literally made my point for me.

Sure, a judge did finally take a reasonable position. But holy cow I wish search was working. Do you have any idea how many females were called names, hounded, harassed, and threatened because they objected to a nude male with a tumescent penis being in the female-only side of the spa? The females were called bigots for the crime of objecting to a semi-erect dick being present in the female side of the spa!

Why do you think that unwanted and nonconsensual exhibitionism doesn't hurt anyone? Are you good with flashers being allowed to expose themselves on the street too? Or is it only in female-only spaces that you think flashers should be tolerated?

 

[Ziggurat]

Our society seems to be going backwards in many ways.

Denying the reality and importance of sex isn't going forward.

 

[Thermal]

You did not make any distinction in your post Thermal.

I DONT NEED TO MAKE A DISTINCTION IN MY POSTS TO ANTICIPATE YOUR ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ PROJECTIONS

I mean my God.

That may not have been your intent, but it's an easily foreseeable outcome.

When arguing with soothsayer, sure. You're above that.

 

[Mycroft]

Are you ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ with us?

No.

Aside from fashion, you do understand that males and females have different body shapes, and that our clothing - even hypothetically gender neutral clothing - is cut differently to accommodate those body shapes, don't you? Simple straight-leg jeans are cut differently because MALES HAVE DICKS AND BALLS THAT NEED TO BE ACCOMMODATED BY THE CUT and FEMALES HAVE HIPS THAT NEED TO BE ACCOMMODATED BY THE CUT.

Yet transwomen wear women’s clothing. Are you denying that?

Notice I’m not using all caps anywhere.

Theprestige dismissed wearing women’s clothing as “sexist nonsense”. Disagreeing that it is sexist nonsense, or at least pointing out that sexist or not our society has embraced our gender dimorphism, is not making any comment about the cut of anyone’s clothing,

 

[Mycroft]

Denying the reality and importance of sex isn't going forward.

Neither is discriminating against transpeople.

 

[Mycroft]

Why do you think this matters? Generally speaking, females don't want to have to see ANY penises in our showers and changing rooms - why do you think someone being "lowkey" about showing their dick is better?

Have you ever seen a transwoman in a woman's bathroom?

 

[Mycroft]

Have you considered referencing data from public opinion polling firms?

I think women are significantly more likely to vote for trans rights than men are, because I've actually looked at the data.

You think I should look up data to verify what you've seen is true?

I'll just take your word for it. It tracks with my lived experience.

 

[Shiner]

Just like you’re forgetting the women here don’t represent the public as a whole.

I think the US election result represents the public as a whole.

 

[Mycroft]

Jesus christ, it's about time. Thought this would never get brought up.

So ok. In a nation of a third of a billion, you have one incident of one individual, who hurt no one but was nude in a spa full of nude people (female). This guy had a conviction record of indecent exposure, and that's what he was charged with here. The judge told him.to shove his transphobe arguments, he was getting prosecuted.

Regarding my 99.999%, that is way too conservative an estimate if that's all ya got on that front. You quite literally made my point for me.

Also, wouldn't their actions have still been illegal if they had a vagina between their legs? I'm pretty sure sexual harassment is a thing even if it's a woman harassing other women.

 

[d4m10n]

You think I should look up data to verify what you've seen is true?

I think we should look to data rather than lived experience, whether that lived experience is IRL or WWW.

 

[Thermal]

Sure, a judge did finally take a reasonable position. But holy cow I wish search was working. Do you have any idea how many females were called names, hounded, harassed, and threatened because they objected to a nude male with a tumescent penis being in the female-only side of the spa? The females were called bigots for the crime of objecting to a semi-erect dick being present in the female side of the spa!

Why do you think that unwanted and nonconsensual exhibitionism doesn't hurt anyone? Are you good with flashers being allowed to expose themselves on the street too? Or is it only in female-only spaces that you think flashers should be tolerated?

That's my point. Flashers are a real thing. If this creep wasn't in that spa, he would have flashed somewhere else. Hell, he already had.

And I know it sounds callous, but this was a nude spa. A place of public accommodation where ya gots vulva and breasts in your face left and right. You only have but so much latitude to be prudish about unexpected nudity in such a public spa. I don't go to places to get naked with a bunch of strangers, then get weird about it. You got weird about nudity (by American standards) walking in the door.

 

[d4m10n]

In a nation of a third of a billion, you have one incident of one individual, who hurt no one but was nude in a spa full of nude people (female). This guy had a conviction record of indecent exposure, and that's what he was charged with here. The judge told him.to shove his transphobe arguments, he was getting prosecuted.

Why should she be prosecuted if she had a right to be there?

 

[Mycroft]

Sure, a judge did finally take a reasonable position. But holy cow I wish search was working. Do you have any idea how many females were called names, hounded, harassed, and threatened because they objected to a nude male with a tumescent penis being in the female-only side of the spa? The females were called bigots for the crime of objecting to a semi-erect dick being present in the female side of the spa!

Why do you think that unwanted and nonconsensual exhibitionism doesn't hurt anyone? Are you good with flashers being allowed to expose themselves on the street too? Or is it only in female-only spaces that you think flashers should be tolerated?

"Tumescent Penis" is going to be my band name.

I'm sorry those people were harassed and called bigots for objecting there, I'm also sorry the staff felt they were unable to call the police on a clear case of sexual harassment.

At the same time, the behavior of this clearly mentally ill person shouldn't reflect on all trans-people. It's the extrapolation of the bad behavior from the few to the many that is the essence of bigotry.

 

[Mycroft]

Why should she be prosecuted if she had a right to be there?

Because being there wasn't her crime, behaving badly while she was there was.

 

[Thermal]

Also, wouldn't their actions have still been illegal if they had a vagina between their legs? I'm pretty sure sexual harassment is a thing even if it's a woman harassing other women.

That's how I see it. Sexual harassment can easily start out in some kind of consensual environment.

What I don't recall about this story is whether it was already law for open trans access? If so, no cry of foul can be accepted at all. Cards were on the table, and it's up to the patrons to decide in advance what they would be willing to get an eyeful of. "I forgot to think about that" falls pretty flat.

 

[Thermal]

Why should she be prosecuted if she had a right to be there?

First off, please don't put words in my mouth, subtlety or otherwise.

Second, you can be anywhere you have a right to be, and still commit a crime.

Eta: ninja'd by Mycroft

 

[d4m10n]

Because being there wasn't her crime, behaving badly while she was there was.

Other than being (allegedly & slightly) tumescent, what bad behavior are we talking about?

...you can be anywhere you have a right to be, and still commit a crime.

If you have a right to be nude in a place, you cannot be criminally indecent just by being nude in that place.