Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Mycroft]

Not a single ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ one of the females in this thread falls into your careless and insulting description.

Yes, that's exactly why their opinions are suspect of not representing majority opinion.

 

[Emily's Cat]

How do you deal with transmen? Wouldn't someone who objects to "biological males" in the woman's room also object to that person with a beard being there?

When a hen identifies as a fox, tosses a fur around their neck, and walks into the fox den, that hen is placing themself at risk.
When a fox identifies as a hen, sticks some feathers up their ass, and walks into the coop, that fox is placing all of the hens at risk.

 

[Mycroft]

And how many of them just won't talk about it, or report it, or make any noise at all specifically because your state is so clearly trans-friendly, and they're pretty sure they'll get harassed and potentially censored or hounded out of a job if they spoke up?

If it seems like you're not in the majority, it must be because there are millions of people who have been silenced and are now just too timid to speak up.

 

[Mycroft]

When a hen identifies as a fox, tosses a fur around their neck, and walks into the fox den, that hen is placing themself at risk.
When a fox identifies as a hen, sticks some feathers up their ass, and walks into the coop, that fox is placing all of the hens at risk.

There are exceptions to people should use the bathroom of the gender assigned at birth?

Also, why the vulgarity of feathers shoved up anything's ass?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Color me surprised, thanks for the correction.

Eta: and I wasn't "overlooking" anything about elder care. It's kinda insulting to a health care worker yo suggest there is some kind of sexy angle in their treatment. What, is granny going to ask the doc on a date? It's inappropriate to treat health care workers like that.

Okay, I'm starting to lose my temper.

GENERALLY SPEAKING FEMALES DO NOT WANT STRANGE MALES TOUCHING THEIR GENITALS.

And if you're unaware of the amount of sexual assaults that male medical workers perpetrate against female patients, that's an entirely different issue and you should consider educating yourself on that topic before you blithely declare that any elderly female who needs help bathing should be just fine with a male scrubbing their vulva.

 

[d4m10n]

The women in this thread strongly oppose that, but the women I meet out and about don't.

Have you considered referencing data from public opinion polling firms?

Do you think majority rules? Or do we need a significant portion of women to agree with that?

I think women are significantly more likely to vote for trans rights than men are, because I've actually looked at the data.

 

[Thermal]

Not a single ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ one of the females in this thread falls into your careless and insulting description.

I didn't say they did. I was talking about meatspace. This is an international forum and red hatters wouldn't even make sense as a charge to broadly level.

You see what I mean? Throw away your tea leaves and stop misreading every post. I'm trusting you and a couple others here to be more grounded.

 

[Emily's Cat]

They probably don't have a beard.

They're probably wearing women's clothing.

They're most likely wearing makeup and jewlry.

Given this approach, Prince should have been treated as a female.

Their gender identity is woman.

ESP is a myth and nobody can read minds.

 

[Thermal]

There are things happening that you probably don't see, Thermal. Like... what percentage of females that used to use the showers at their local gym no longer do? What portion of female middle and high schoolers avoid drinking liquids during the day so they don't have to use the bathroom? How many females have ended up self-excluding from full participation in society? How many have altered their behavior so that they're never alone in a bathroom or changing room or shower or locker room, just to be safe?

And how many of them just won't talk about it, or report it, or make any noise at all specifically because your state is so clearly trans-friendly, and they're pretty sure they'll get harassed and potentially censored or hounded out of a job if they spoke up?

Ok. "What about hypothesized stuff we can't document or observe and prove?" Want to apply that kind of thinking to the other side? It crushes y'all's assumptions just as thoroughly flat.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Not quite. What I'm seeing (ironically from all y'alls argumentation).is that "the risk being assigned to females" seems kinda nonexistant, which I had not assumed up front. It's looking more and more like a moral.panic, and the Wikipedia pages I brought up recently confirm it: transwomen are far more threatened by males than females are threatened by transwomen.

How the holy ◊◊◊◊ are we supposed to tell the difference between a male and a transwoman, given that transwomen are male?

You keep framing this as if there's some actual genuine and observable way to tell the difference, when there really, really isn't.

Females are far more threatened by males than transgender identified males are threatened by males.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I bet when you go shopping with the women in your life and whey want to go to the woman's department or the woman's clothing store, you don't tell them it's sexist nonsense and refuse to go with them.

Are you ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ with us?

Aside from fashion, you do understand that males and females have different body shapes, and that our clothing - even hypothetically gender neutral clothing - is cut differently to accommodate those body shapes, don't you? Simple straight-leg jeans are cut differently because MALES HAVE DICKS AND BALLS THAT NEED TO BE ACCOMMODATED BY THE CUT and FEMALES HAVE HIPS THAT NEED TO BE ACCOMMODATED BY THE CUT.

 

[Mycroft]

Dude, this is why you're getting the responses you keep getting. You seem to be either forgetting or disregarding the fact that the people who are made uncomfortable are almost entirely females.

Just like you keep forgetting many females are not bothered by transwomen using the woman's bathroom. The majority, from what I can tell.

You're essentially arguing, as a male, that you don't give a ◊◊◊◊ if females are made uncomfortable by males giving males the right to invade spaces where females are naked or vulnerable.

If there was a vote of only women, and that vote went to include transwomen in women's bathrooms, would you abide by that?

 

[Thermal]

Dude, this is why you're getting the responses you keep getting. You seem to be either forgetting or disregarding the fact that the people who are made uncomfortable are almost entirely females. You're essentially arguing, as a male, that you don't give a ◊◊◊◊ if females are made uncomfortable by males giving males the right to invade spaces where females are naked or vulnerable.

No, I do care, and I think you know that. But we are questioning how valid those fears are. Are they real, or largely imaginary? How do they play out in the stats?

In our Holy and Unquestionable 79 trans offender stat, did any of you yahoos question what those sex offenses actually *were*? How many were trannys attacking strangers in rest rooms? Or strangers at all?

 

[Emily's Cat]

It is sufficient to establish that you made it the ◊◊◊◊ up. You had a goddamned Ouija board out or tarot cards or something, divining messages from the spirits about what I really meant when I typed those words.

And it's not to bust your chops specifically; 90% of the argumentation here is at that level. The only difference is that you are honest and didn't change the subject when confronted directly, and I thank you for that. Your cohorts, however, are enough to piss off the Pope.

Just so you don't feel singled out, perhaps have a bit of discussion with damion about them having been run through the wringer when they were arguing out of both sides of their mouth. Granted, most of damion's argument was devil's advocate... but at the end of the day, you're essentially taking a position that is internally inconsistent and self-contradictory. I get that you don't see it that way, I get that you're trying to be nice and make everyone happy... but making everyone happy isn't possible.

At the end of the day, the consequences of self-id and granting males access to female spaces and services introduces an increased risk to females. Firstly, because transgender identified males are still males, and most of them exhibit male-typical behaviors, including the aggression and confrontation that comes with testosterone. Secondly because there is literally no way to tell whether a male claiming to be transgender is genuinely transgender or whether they're a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ liar who wants access to females against our consent. Thirdly because sex is real and gender identity is a personality quirk at best and a delusion at worst. Fourthly because even with gatekeepers there is no way to keep liars out without doing an actual pants check.

At the end of the day, the end result ends up allowing any male who wishes to do so the *right* to override female boundaries. It enables and empowers any flasher or peeping tom to violate female privacy simply because they wish to. It destroys any reasonable expectation of females being able to deny consent to a male who wishes to see them naked, or who wishes to expose themselves to females.

The result, whether it is intended or not, is that it reduces female rights, and it excludes us from being able to participate equally in society.

 

[Mycroft]

Dude, this is why you're getting the responses you keep getting. You seem to be either forgetting or disregarding the fact that the people who are made uncomfortable are almost entirely females.

Just like you keep forgetting many females are not bothered by transwomen using the woman's bathroom. The majority, from what I can tell.

You're essentially arguing, as a male, that you don't give a ◊◊◊◊ if females are made uncomfortable by males giving males the right to invade spaces where females are naked or vulnerable.

If there was a vote of only women, and that vote went to include transwomen in women's bathrooms, would you abide by that?

 

[Emily's Cat]

The women in this thread strongly oppose that, but the women I meet out and about don't.

Do you think majority rules? Or do we need a significant portion of women to agree with that?

Go back a few pages. There have been several polls that show that females do NOT actually support this as strongly as you think - neither in the US nor the UK. The view has materially and significantly shifted over the last few years - as more has become known about the entire issue, public support is waning, not growing.

This is in direct contradiction to how public perception has changed with pretty much any other civil rights claim ever known.

 

[Mycroft]

Dude, this is why you're getting the responses you keep getting. You seem to be either forgetting or disregarding the fact that the people who are made uncomfortable are almost entirely females.

Just like you’re forgetting the women here don’t represent the public as a whole.

You're essentially arguing, as a male, that you don't give a ◊◊◊◊ if females are made uncomfortable by males giving males the right to invade spaces where females are naked or vulnerable.

If there was a vote of only women, and that vote went to include transwomen in women's bathrooms, would you abide by that?

 

[Emily's Cat]

I didn't say they did. I was talking about meatspace. This is an international forum and red hatters wouldn't even make sense as a charge to broadly level.

You see what I mean? Throw away your tea leaves and stop misreading every post. I'm trusting you and a couple others here to be more grounded.

You did not make any distinction in your post Thermal. You were responding to Mycroft's post - and in context, it's clear that Mycroft's entire point with their "informal polling of people they know" is intended to paint the females in this thread as being off our rockers and completely bigoted. That's apparent - it's not even subtle. So your post backing up Mycroft by opining that the only people who oppose transgender identified males using female restrooms are all MAGA supporters is pretty obviously going to be read as insulting to all of us in this thread.

That may not have been your intent, but it's an easily foreseeable outcome.

 

[Mycroft]

Go back a few pages. There have been several polls that show that females do NOT actually support this as strongly as you think - neither in the US nor the UK. The view has materially and significantly shifted over the last few years - as more has become known about the entire issue, public support is waning, not growing.

Yet so far the women I meet day to day are not bothered by transwomen using women's bathrooms.

This is in direct contradiction to how public perception has changed with pretty much any other civil rights claim ever known.

Our society seems to be going backwards in many ways.

 

[Mycroft]

You're essentially arguing, as a male, that you don't give a ◊◊◊◊ if females are made uncomfortable by males giving males the right to invade spaces where females are naked or vulnerable.

If there was a vote of only women, and that vote went allow transwomen to use women's bathrooms, would you agree to that?