Rolfe
Adult human female
Honestly, I have no idea whether he committed a criminal offence or not, but his behaviour was sleazebag+++ and he deserves all the cancellaiton he's getting.
Neil Gaiman "cancelled"?
- Thread starter Orphia Nay
- Start date
Matthew Best
Penultimate Amazing
This is what I feel about it too. Even if everything Gaiman says is true, he's still someone I no longer have any respect for.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
I agree that he is a scumbag. Any 60+ person getting it on with a 25 year old is a disgusting individual in my book, but it is NOT a criminal offence to do so, and does not automatically indicate a lack of consent in either direction.
We also only have her word that there was a lack of consent, and the only DOCUMENTARY evidence we see i.e. the messages, directly indicate that she was a willing participant in everything that happened.
Names of the other two.... they are not named in the complaint. Who are they?
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Who cares who they are? You already have Gaiman and Palmer.
In any case they'll be named if and when either side introduces their testimony at trial*.
*Technically they'd be named during discovery, but that's not usually made public.
angrysoba
Philosophile
Although this is the second time smartcooky has said she was 25, news reports I have seen say she was 22. Maybe not a major distinction but the age of 25 was previously brought up by smartcooky to say she was hardly that young, dismissing the idea that her youth could be exploited by not paying her for her nanny services…
“FFS, she was 25 when all this was alleged to have happened!!”
The complaint says she was 22, and though smartcooky claims to have read it, he keeps saying she was 25.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Oh dear Orphia Nay. Its seem like it is YOU who hasn't read the complaint.
A. Palmer Targets Scarlett
18. Scarlett met Palmer in Auckland, New Zealand, in 2020
19. Scarlett met Palmer in and around the time of the COVID pandemic outbreak.
20. At the time, Scarlett was 22 years old
21. The two became acquaintances.
22. Scarlett would occasionally visit Palmer at Palmer’s house on Waiheke Island
The Covid19 pandemic outbreak was 2019, but in NZ it really started to hit hard in February of 2020
So Pavlovich was 22 at the time she met Palmer in 2020
B. A Promise of Employment
36. On February 1, 2022, Palmer asked Scarlett if Scarlett could babysit for the weekend.
This makes Pavlovich 24 years old before she ever met Gaiman.
The sex between Pavlovich and Gaiman, which IMO appears to be fully consensual (at least according to the messages) goes on until at least
December 30, 2022 (the date of the last message I have seen). It could have gone beyond that time.
Pavlovich would either have turned 25 by then, or be very close to it, so I stand by my statement.
Care to walk back your bull-◊◊◊◊ claim now?
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smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Both of whom deny the allegations.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
Don't be silly. If you don't know their names, they don't exist.
"Maybe not a major distinction" as was said earlier if you'd like to engage in the discussion.
Gaiman denies it was non-consensual. As far as anyone knows, he has not denied the acts.
angrysoba
Philosophile
If that is the case, then she is still younger than smartcooky claimed.Oh dear Orphia Nay. Its seem like it is YOU who hasn't read the complaint.
A. Palmer Targets Scarlett18. Scarlett met Palmer in Auckland, New Zealand, in 202019. Scarlett met Palmer in and around the time of the COVID pandemic outbreak.20. At the time, Scarlett was 22 years old21. The two became acquaintances.22. Scarlett would occasionally visit Palmer at Palmer’s house on Waiheke Island
The Covid19 pandemic outbreak was 2019, but in NZ it really started to hit hard in February of 2020
So Pavlovich was 22 at the time she met Palmer in 2020
B. A Promise of Employment36. On February 1, 2022, Palmer asked Scarlett if Scarlett could babysit for the weekend.
This makes Pavlovich 24 years old before she ever met Gaiman.
The sex between Pavlovich and Gaiman, which IMO appears to be fully consensual (at least according to the messages) goes on until at least
December 30, 2022 (the date of the last message I have seen). It could have gone beyond that time.
Pavlovich would either have turned 25 by then, or be very close to it, so I stand by my statement.
Care to walk back your bull-◊◊◊◊ claim now?
Some of the reports say, incorrectly, that Pavlovich first met the couple in 2020, when it was just Palmer, so that could be the source of some of the confusion.
That said, 'around the time of the COVID pandemic' is a bit vague. I don't know about NZ, but we didn't get lockdowns here until late March 2020. If she was just 22 in March or April 2020, she would be only 23 in February 2022.
That's also consistent with this Daily Fail article, from February 2025 which quotes her age then (the time of publication) as being 26, so 23 in February 2022.
Neil Gaiman accuser said relationship was 'consensual' in messages
Scarlett Pavlovich, 26, filed lawsuits accusing Gaiman and his estranged wife Amanda Palmer of rape and human trafficking earlier this month.
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smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Correct, and I never said or implied that. Its why I think he's a cradle-snatching scumbag, but not necessarily a rapist.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Both of whom corroborate pretty much her entire story.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Wrong The entire basis of her story, and for the lawsuit, is that it was all non-consensual, and that Palmer procured her for Gaiman.
They both deny those allegations.
Neil Gaiman calls his accuser a ‘fantasist’
The writer says WhatsApp messages show his relationship with a former nanny was consensual
www.tortoisemedia.com
Amanda Palmer, Neil Gaiman’s former partner, denies claims of human trafficking
Palmer rejects allegations made in lawsuit filed by the former couple’s nanny accusing her of trafficking and negligence
www.theguardian.com
The rest of her story is merely the surrounding cicumstances.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Right, so when you said her story hadn't been corroborated, what you meant was all of the decisions and actions Gaiman is accused of taking have been corroborated by Gaiman himself, and the only point of dispute is his victim's state of mind.Wrong The entire basis of her story, and for the lawsuit, is that it was all non-consensual, and that Palmer procured her for Gaiman.
They both deny those allegations.
Neil Gaiman calls his accuser a ‘fantasist’
The writer says WhatsApp messages show his relationship with a former nanny was consensual
Amanda Palmer, Neil Gaiman’s former partner, denies claims of human trafficking
Palmer rejects allegations made in lawsuit filed by the former couple’s nanny accusing her of trafficking and negligence
The rest of her story is merely the surrounding cicumstances.
Also, non consent to sexual acts is not the basis of the trafficking suit.
But do you think he assaulted and beat her, if he has not denied the acts?
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Well, this is your claim, not mine... but I don't expect your back that up at all any time soon.
Its is if the claim is she was trafficked for sex.
There's several witnesses Pavlovich told about Gaiman in this Document in Support of Gaiman's Motion to Dismiss:
MA, her friend
K, MA's partner
PBG, the lecturer mentioned earlier
ES, MA's friend.
MA, her friend
K, MA's partner
PBG, the lecturer mentioned earlier
ES, MA's friend.