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Is Jesus's "this generation will certainly not pass" valid grounds for scepticism?

Darat said:
Unless you follow a calvanistic Christian religion, in which case there is no free will of any kind and whether you go to a heaven or hell was determined before you were even born.
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Much as most christian apologists like to assert differently, any religion where the god is either omnipotent or omniscient is one which denies the idea of free will.
 
Poem said:
Okay.

Where did I say otherwise?

Indeed.

Minor disagreement?

The Third Way Of Evolution:
The DNA record does not support the assertion that small random mutations are the main source of new and useful variations.
#476

That is an absolute rejection of the adequacy of the modern synthesis. What is modern synthesis? It is the contemporary explanation for evolutionary process that most biologists subscribe to.

Right - and I too would argue that the disunity in the Church is valid grounds for scepticism.
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You do realise that the website you point to doesn't deny evolution, just states that it occurs using different mechanisms than generally accepted (albeit with no serious evidence backing the alternative medicines).
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
Even smart people believe in really dumb things. I take Collins' christianity as a less dumb version of Linus Pauling believing that vitamin A cured all ills.
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Whatever you, I or anyone other sceptic for that matter thinks about Christianity, there are lots of smart people who do believe. And whilst belief in a supernatural power is lower in the science community, according to Pew Research (2009):
...just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power.

The research also states that in the science community 10% identify as Catholic and 21% as protestant.
 
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Gulliver Foyle said:
You do realise that the website you point to doesn't deny evolution, just states that it occurs using different mechanisms than generally accepted (albeit with no serious evidence backing the alternative medicines).
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Yes, and have previously stated so. The point was in establishing that division in Christianity isn't unique.
 
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Poem said:
If there was clarity to his words such that all Christians agreed then that would be powerful testimony in itself.
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If clarity was required for belief, there would be no Christians; no one would believe in ghosts or bigfoot.

For non-Christians lack of clarity doesn't matter.

For atheists, it's a made up story, and again, clarity doesn't matter.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
You do realise that the website you point to doesn't deny evolution, just states that it occurs using different mechanisms than generally accepted (albeit with no serious evidence backing the alternative medicines).
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Autochthonous generation is so nineteenth century. And talking about evolution really should be left to those with scientific expertise.
 
Poem said:
Whatever you, I or anyone other sceptic for that matter thinks about Christianity, there are lots of smart people who do believe. And whilst belief in a supernatural power is lower in the science community, according to Pew Research (2009):
...just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power.

The research also states that in the science community 10% identify as Catholic and 21% as protestant.
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Their belief is easily explained by the Terror Management Theory. They don't believe because they are stupid or because religious belief isn't stupid, they believe because the alternative would be too horrible to contemplate. There is no intelligence involved, just false hope.

The only thing this tells us is that reality actually is a horrible nightmare from which there is no awakening. Arguably it isn't for about half the scientists in the survey, but they likely employ other ways to manage the terror that aren't truly rational either.
 
Olmstead said:
Their belief is easily explained by the Terror Management Theory. They don't believe because they are stupid or because religious belief isn't stupid, they believe because the alternative would be too horrible to contemplate. There is no intelligence involved, just false hope.

The only thing this tells us is that reality actually is a horrible nightmare from which there is no awakening. Arguably it isn't for about half the scientists in the survey, but they likely employ other ways to manage the terror that aren't truly rational either.
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Have often thought so. Never knew it was called that....Terror Management Theory.
 
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theprestige said:
Yeah, but do you accept it as a possible motive for creating or adopting a religious belief?
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No, not for me. Only thought it might be a possibility for others.

When you say 'creating' - do you mean the founding of a religion?
 
Poem said:
Well, I'm just fine with it being only me...but i very much doubt that. And, as I have stated a number of times - the OP is but one of a number of issues.
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So who is "us" in your previous post?
Poem said:
I wouldn't put it as you do - but, sure, with such powers one would assume such a God could communicate his existence as you suggest.

You appear to be somewhat irritated that anyone would even ponder the possibility of some truth in Christianity?
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I see nothing in my post that could credibly be interpreted as 'irritated'- largely because I'm not remotely irritated, and especially not with the idea that "anyone would even ponder the possibility of some truth in Christianity". As I have been advised to elsewhere, I'm going to ask you kindly to quote the parts of my post that led you to that conclusion.
Poem said:
....and on a forum about Religion. What are you suggesting - that ISF shuts down all threads on religion because you think it's all bunk?
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I could call this a ridiculous suggestion, but that, for the time being at least, is forbidden. So, again, could you please quote the pertinent parts of my post that led you to conclude that I want all threads on religion shut down on this forum?
 
steenkh said:
Religious zeal? Gaining authority in the community?
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Poem said:
Can you elaborate?
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Poem, are you genuinely unaware of the entire history of the Christian church? And of the rise of other religions such as Islam?
You may not know about this one, though. The Spanish conquistadores invented a god called Tio to keep their slaves digging out silver ore whilst the colonial masters were away. A made-up god, invented to enslave and exploit a native population and enrich their colonial masters.
en.wikipedia.org

El Tío - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Cosmic Yak said:
So who is "us" in your previous post?
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Myself, a close friend, Bertrand Russell (he didn't quote Mat. 24:34 but very similar verses in Mat. 10 and Mat.16) and, presumably, there are many more.
Cosmic Yak said:
I see nothing in my post that could credibly be interpreted as 'irritated'- largely because I'm not remotely irritated, and especially not with the idea that "anyone would even ponder the possibility of some truth in Christianity". As I have been advised to elsewhere, I'm going to ask you kindly to quote the parts of my post that led you to that conclusion.
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Okay - you've got me there. Maybe I'm the one irritated by your previous refusal to believe what I say.
Cosmic Yak said:
I could call this a ridiculous suggestion, but that, for the time being at least, is forbidden. So, again, could you please quote the pertinent parts of my post that led you to conclude that I want all threads on religion shut down on this forum?
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A misunderstanding then.
 
Poem said:
Can you elaborate?
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Telling porkies to the other members of your religious group could be one way of establishing your supremacy: if you know something “on good authority” that the others don’t know, they’ll think that you are a very important person.
 
Poem said:
Whatever you, I or anyone other sceptic for that matter thinks about Christianity, there are lots of smart people who do believe. And whilst belief in a supernatural power is lower in the science community, according to Pew Research (2009):
...just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power.

The research also states that in the science community 10% identify as Catholic and 21% as protestant.
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Scientists in America. Not only that, but a sub-set of US scientists, namely members of the AAAS.
The percentage for America drops to 30% if all scientists are sampled, and the percentage worldwide (and note that these figures are for identifying as any religious belief, from slightly up to very religious) varies from India (59%) down to just 16% in France.
 
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