Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

Ziggurat said:
Silent? A lot of them. But they still vote for that crap. Democrat voters aren't really on board with the radical trans stuff, but for the most part the politicians have gone along with it. Which is one of the many reasons they got their asses handed to them in the last election.
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The right has a horrible tendency to get the entertainment industry fashionistas mixed up with the politicians. That's basically the definition of the culture wars. And then they ask Random Joe Voter (D) who just doesn't like jackbooted Nazis why he supports cutting everybody's penises off.

But yeah, the fashionistas do occasionally get in a position to affect policy, but it's usually either the private policies of the entertainment industry or some local yokel affair. The BG3 character creator someone mentioned earlier was a prime example. Trying to be "inclusive" (and probably failing according to many they're trying to include) at the cost of making over 99% of the population uncomfortable is just stupid.

That said, I wasn't a big fan of what they did with Aerie in BG2, either. So... I guess Baldur's Gate just never spoke the same language as I do when it comes to romance. I literally quit the game entirely after finding out she was a closet ogre. Never went back and finished.

But yeah... equating this with "democrats" is ludicrous. I guess the sheer noise might be confusing the younger generations, though. Everybody with half a brain knows that BLM and LBGTQ are factions that have actually tended to dislike each other, for instance. We're not a hive mind.

Do I support treating people with dignity and respect? Well, yeah. But that includes completely normal people, too... not just special identities.

But anyway...

What, pray tell, is "that crap" which "they" voted for? Be specific. The culture wars usually don't make it into federal law unless it's the other side pushing back against something which hasn't previously been addressed at all (stuff like the recent wave of bathroom bills).
 
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smartcooky said:
Meanwhile, self-ID TIMs are, in some places, getting access to women's toilets and changing rooms, rape crisis centres, and domestic violence shelters. I guess Manoplus doesn't care about that either.
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It's more like Manopolus doesn't trust that anything you say is particularly true. After all, I haven't experienced any of these sorts of events you describe, and I'm quite aware of how dishonest the right-wing outrage machine tends to be (almost as bad as the GMO haters, but literally nobody listens to them anymore).

It's not that I think you're lying. I just know how much absolute garbage is out there for you to uncritically pass on. And even when something is true in some cherry-picked affair, it's usually not particularly typical.

And your tone doesn't inspire confidence. It's the exact tone I expect from getting the outrage machine quoted to me.
 
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Manopolus said:
It's more like Manopolus doesn't trust that anything you say is particularly true. After all, I haven't experienced any of these sorts of events you describe, and I'm quite aware of how dishonest the right-wing outrage machine tends to be
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How about this, not from a right wing source

“There are supposed to be rules in place which prevent this happening. Male officers shouldn’t search women.

“But as this officer insists they are female, they are going ahead and searching women visiting the prison.

“The searches can be rigorous because we are looking for drugs and contraband. The situation is causing a great deal of distress.”
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https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/prison-staffs-concerns-over-trans-officer-searching-female-visitors/
 
Possibily related is this 'peer reviewed' piece of 'queer theory'...

This article offers a queer lesbian feminist analysis attuned to lesbian-queer-trans-canine relationalities. Specifically, the article places queer and lesbian ecofeminism in conversation with Donna Haraway’s work on the cyborg and companion species to theorize the interconnected queer becomings of people, nature, animals, and machines amidst ecologies of love and violence in the 2020s. It takes two key case studies as the focus for analysis: first, the state instrumentalization of dogs and robot dogs for racialized and imperial violence, and second, quotidian queer and lesbian-dog relationalities and becomings. In the first, the article traces how dogs are weaponized as tools of state violence and proposes a queer lesbian feminist critique of white supremacy and militarization that can also extend to a critique of the violence committed through and toward the dogs. In the second, the article analyzes how, within lesbian, non-binary, and trans-dog intimacies, dogs help articulate queer gender, sexuality, and kinship formations, and as such, queer worlds for gender, sexual, and kin becomings. The entanglements of violence and love in these queer dog relationalities provide insights into the complexities of queer and lesbian feminist worldbuilding. Lesbian and queer feminist cyborg politics can help theorize the potentials and challenges of these interspecies entanglements.
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Queer canine becomings: Lesbian feminist cyborg politics and interspecies intimacies in ecologies of love and violence
 
Manopolus said:
Actual Democratic Party politicians have been mostly silent on the matter.
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Let's test this hypothesis. Whom would you say are the most prominent actual politicians from that party right now?
Manopolus said:
Well, "the left" does have quite a few lunatic fringes.
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If you say so, but the link I provided was from a relatively mainstream secular/skeptical group which tends to do science education well enough when the issue is something other than gender.
 
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d4m10n said:
The part where you painted LGBT with the paedo brush.
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Let's clarify this. There is LGB, and then there is (LGB)T. The former are people who experience same-sex attraction, for which they were vilified for many years. As part of their long struggle for acceptance by society they (mostly) did their damndest to dissociate themselves from allegations of kiddy-fiddling. The assumption that gay = interested in underage boys was fought rigorously, and it was made a particular point that gay organisations did not target children.

The latter are the transactivists, who have force-teamed themselves with the gay lobby, appropriating their organisations, institutions and insignia. Stonewall, Pride, the rainbow flag (now seldom seen without the extra chevrons) are all now trans propaganda. "No LGB without the T" they intone, even though the T has bugger-all to do with same-sex attraction in most cases. But the LGB cause has become respectable, so the force-teaming must be maintained in order to tar people who aren't holding still for the abolition of women's sports and child mutilation with the "bigot" brush.

A particular feature of the latter group, the (LGB)T mob, is their interest in children. Protect trans youth! Let us into your schools to tell children they can be whichever sex they choose and we're there for them right up to puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones and mastectomies. Let us into your libraries with our hypersexualised picture books and our hideous parodies of femininity known as drag queens. Let your children come to the Mermaids stall at Pride, we have puppies! We also have men dressed as puppies for them to stroke.

What sort of people could possibly be interested in drugging children so that they remain pre-pubertal until they're over the age of consent, I wonder?

The paedophiles in the articles may not themselves have been trans, but they were/are TRANS-ACTIVISTS. Using the fashionable cause of trans to get themselves close to underage children, sexualise children, pervert their young minds, and sexually abuse them. The streak of paedophilia in the trans lobby is a mile wide. And the force-teaming with the former LGB lobby is now tarnishing the part of that lobby that remains connected to the trans cuckoo, screaming "NO LGB WITHOUT THE T!!!"

If ye flee wi the craws ye'll get shot wi the craws. Burn the lot of them, who are protecting these monsters and facilitating child abuse, irrespective of their sexual orientation or personal trans status.
 
Manopolus said:
What, pray tell, is "that crap" which "they" voted for? Be specific.
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For example, California bill SB132 (passed into law) basically said to house prisoners according to their self-declared gender identity. Or AB 957, which would allow courts to deny child custody to a parent in a divorce if the parent didn't "affirm" the child's gender identity. California law also requires schools to allow student sports participation based on gender identity rather than sex.

This is not a comprehensive list. I consider it sufficiently illustrative, though. Contrary to your impression, there are, in fact, a lot of trans activist stuff that's been passed into law.
 
Rolfe said:
The paedophiles in the articles may not themselves have been trans, but they were/are TRANS-ACTIVISTS
...
If ye flee wi the craws ye'll get shot wi the craws.
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The case of Darrin Bell, a cartoonist who attacked conservatives and Republicans over trans issues and was later arrested on child porn charges, comes to mind. I think he was mentioned in the thread before, but Manopolus might not be familiar, as he doesn't seem caught up on these issues.
 
Graham2001 said:
Possibily related is this 'peer reviewed' piece of 'queer theory'...



Queer canine becomings: Lesbian feminist cyborg politics and interspecies intimacies in ecologies of love and violence
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What I hate about this is that using domesticated animals as tools - especially using dogs as weapons - is an interesting subject to me. Just... not for any of the reasons laid out in that summary.

You could absolutely have something relevant to say about the use of domesticated animals and how our society is shaped by this use. But no. You want to talk about lesbians who think they're dogs, or are Intimate with dogs, or both.

And yet somehow that's still not as obscene as trans-affirming surgery for minors.
 
Men with gender dysphoria "become" women to deal with their anxiety about having a man's body.

So, once they get boob implants and mutilate their penis and take lots of hormones to sorta kinda look like a woman, does their anxiety go away?
 
Hercules56 said:
Men with gender dysphoria "become" women to deal with their anxiety about having a man's body.

So, once they get boob implants and mutilate their penis and take lots of hormones to sorta kinda look like a woman, does their anxiety go away?
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I'm sure it varies. Transwomen are not some faceless blob. They are like real people and stuff. I can only opine on the one transwoman that I (knowingly) am acquainted with. She went from being a deeply troubled gay teen in the 2000s (i knew her family then), and as she moved on into adulthood, realized she wasnt: she was a woman, but didn't realize that was a 'thing' for a guy to be. Visually, she is fully transitioned (I never asked about the downstairs slice and dice but I kind of assumed she did so). She is entirely happy and well adjusted as of the last time I saw her, almost a year ago.

Eta: btw, she doesn't "kinda sorta" look like a woman. You'd break your neck doing a double take on her. She's a damned stunner, even now in her i guess late 30s.
 
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Thermal said:
I'm sure it varies. Transwomen are not some faceless blob. They are like real people and stuff. I can only opine on the one transwoman that I (knowingly) am acquainted with. She went from being a deeply troubled gay teen in the 2000s (i knew her family then), and as she moved on into adulthood, realized she wasnt: she was a woman, but didn't realize that was a 'thing' for a guy to be. Visually, she is fully transitioned (I never asked about the downstairs slice and dice but I kind of assumed she did so). She is entirely happy and well adjusted as of the last time I saw her, almost a year ago.

Eta: btw, she doesn't "kinda sorta" look like a woman. You'd break your neck doing a double take on her. She's a damned stunner, even now in her i guess late 30s.
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I also know a couple of such transwomen, pretty much like the one you mention here. One of them I see regularly on quiz nights... a member of rival team. She passes at a distance, but up close, she doesn't.
I have talked with her a number of times over the years, including on the subject of self id. She has nothing but disdain for them, sees them as fakers and fetishists, and not real transwomen. She considers every single one if them to have ulterior, mostly nefarious motives
 
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Thermal said:
I'm sure it varies. Transwomen are not some faceless blob. They are like real people and stuff. I can only opine on the one transwoman that I (knowingly) am acquainted with. She went from being a deeply troubled gay teen in the 2000s (i knew her family then), and as she moved on into adulthood, realized she wasnt: she was a woman, but didn't realize that was a 'thing' for a guy to be. Visually, she is fully transitioned (I never asked about the downstairs slice and dice but I kind of assumed she did so). She is entirely happy and well adjusted as of the last time I saw her, almost a year ago.

Eta: btw, she doesn't "kinda sorta" look like a woman. You'd break your neck doing a double take on her. She's a damned stunner, even now in her i guess late 30s.
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Naked, she most definitely does not look like a normal woman.
 
Hercules56 said:
Men with gender dysphoria "become" women to deal with their anxiety about having a man's body.

So, once they get boob implants and mutilate their penis and take lots of hormones to sorta kinda look like a woman, does their anxiety go away?
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On the whole, not. There are recent studies that show that post-hormones and post-op trans-identifying people (male and female) have a higher prevalence of suicide, suicidal ideation, anxiety and mental illness than those that haven't had these treatments.
 
Rolfe said:
On the whole, not. There are recent studies that show that post-hormones and post-op trans-identifying people (male and female) have a higher prevalence of suicide, suicidal ideation, anxiety and mental illness than those that haven't had these treatments.
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Please show.
 
Rolfe said:
The latter are the transactivists, who have force-teamed themselves with the gay lobby, appropriating their organisations, institutions and insignia. Stonewall, Pride, the rainbow flag (now seldom seen without the extra chevrons) are all now trans propaganda. "No LGB without the T" they intone, even though the T has bugger-all to do with same-sex attraction in most cases. But the LGB cause has become respectable, so the force-teaming must be maintained in order to tar people who aren't holding still for the abolition of women's sports and child mutilation with the "bigot" brush.
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I'm very skeptical of the "force-teaming" narrative here, not least because the trans insurgents were once a rather small fraction of the activist whole. The explanation which seems much more plausible to me is that LGB advocacy groups essentially ran out of issues once they were given formal equality regarding marriage and related legal rights granted to romantic partners and then needed to choose between folding up shop and finding a new drum to bang on.
Rolfe said:
What sort of people could possibly be interested in drugging children so that they remain pre-pubertal until they're over the age of consent, I wonder?
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Is this actually a thing that happens IRL? Last I checked Tanner stage II is usually years prior to that age.
Rolfe said:
The paedophiles in the articles may not themselves have been trans, but they were/are TRANS-ACTIVISTS.
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I think we need to examine what sort of inferences we can reasonably make here.

Do James Rennie's awful crimes tell us anything about LGBT activism more generally?

Rolfe said:
Burn the lot of them, who are protecting these monsters and facilitating child abuse, irrespective of their sexual orientation or personal trans status.
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Glad to see this clarified.
 
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Rolfe said:
Will do, when I come across the references again on Twitter. The paper has been widely discussed over the last day or two, so I imagine I'll see it again soon.
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If transition doesn't solve their mental issues, than clearly transition is NOT the answer.
 
Hercules56 said:
Please show.
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E

Post in thread 'Transwomen are not Women - Part 15'

A recent US study using a retrospective matched cohort design that analyzed over 107k medical records from patients with a diagnoses of gender dysphoria found that "those undergoing surgery were at significantly higher risk for depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, and substance use disorders than those without surgery".

Of course this is not an RCT (but nor are any studies cited in support of the efficacy of gender-affirming treatment). The conclusions correctly use the term 'associated with' rather than 'causing' poorer mental health. However, when designs that cannot establish...
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