Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

Thermal said:
"Decided". That's where you tip your hand, and rip away your own fig leaf.

A trans person doesn't 'decide' to be trans. They come to terms with what they really are. ..
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What they really are is a man who thinks he should be in a womans body, or a woman who thinks they should be in a mans body.

I accept that. What I dont accept is that just because you take some hormones, get boob implants and mutilate your penis I am now required to identify you as a woman. Or face sanctions or being fired. Or be fined by the government.

Again, Gays aren't asking me to accept anything about them other than who they want to love.
 
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Hercules56 said:
What they really are is a man who thinks he should be in a womans body, or a woman who thinks they should be in a mans body.

I accept that. What I dont accept is that just because you take some hormones, get boob implants and mutilate your penis I am now required to identify you as a woman. Or face sanctions or being fired. Or be fined by the government.

Again, Gays aren't asking me to accept anything about them other than who they want to love.
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Ignoring posts and repeating yourself is not a discussion. It is masturbating for the audience, and some would say a bit distasteful.
 
Hercules56 said:
No,they are also asking to accept that they have literally changed their sex.

Gays dont ask anything of the sort.
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No, that would be absurd. You can still hate trans people if you want to. Certain methods of acting upon hatred would be a problem. Acceptance is not a requirement. Nobody is reading minds.
 
Gay people never demanded that the rest of the world..

1. Call them by their chosen pronouns
2. Deny objective, observable scientific and biological reality.
3. Change scientific definitions to remove biology as the basis for sex determination and replace it with feelings.
4. Grant them right of access to safe spaces reserved for women, such as women's toilets, bathrooms and changing rooms.
5. Grant them right of access to domestic violence shelters for women, and rape crisis centres.
6. Allow TIM's to be housed in women's prisons.
7. Allow biological males compete in women's sports.

These are all things that TRAs demand the rest of us do. Well, up theirs! The tide is turning against them.... that tide needs to turn into a flood.
 
I Am The Scum said:
No, that would be absurd. You can still hate trans people if you want to. Certain methods of acting upon hatred would be a problem. Acceptance is not a requirement. Nobody is reading minds.
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I don't hate transpeople. I think they are entitled to be who they are, so long as being who they are doesn't transgress or abrogate the rights of others. Other than that, I don't care, so long as they don't try to follow my partner, female friends, daughters or granddaughters into the toilet, or other women's safe spaces where they have no business being.
 
d4m10n said:
I'm going to avoid the CAIS talk here going forward, except to point out that you all have convinced me that the intersex lobby was strategically correct to side with the trans lobby, given that the former will be taking splash damage from the EO intended to target the latter.
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While we're at it, maybe you should recommend that amputees and ara/quadriplegics should make common cause with BIID folks, since if the BIID people ever try to foist off insane legislation, there's a chance that people who are actually missing limbs might get caught up in the blowback... Perfectly reasonable and logical. Makes perfect sense.
 
Rolfe said:
Does this mean you think it's fine for any sporting body to declare that men are welcome in the women's events so long as they make that clear and the women are aware of the rule? That's actually the case most of the time as it stands. The women's category is abolished that way just as effectively, and the women are no less unhappy about it.
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This ends up drifting into the territory of private liberty. Private, non-government-funded sports bodies can make whatever rules they want as private entities. In many cases, those rules will be opposed for very good reasons - which is also perfectly acceptable. It's a trade-off... but it's the trade-off we make when we wish to have discriminatory private scholarships, exclusive private clubs, and businesses that cater to a niche clientele while not providing services to anyone else.

Prohibiting the use of government funding or support for those bodies introduces a different factor into their consideration.
 
angrysoba said:
It’s not a “schtick”. I’m pointing out that the stats are padded. I’ve already said that I am against transwomen competing in sports, or, perhaps better expressed by theprestige, that self-ID should be not be an allowed qualification for sports, and will further add that sporting agencies (as opposed to say, executive orders) should be the ones for allowing or disallowing transgender participation.

There are plenty of good reasons other than where someone placed in a park run or a marathon for letting transgender people compete or not. I’m not ignoring that at all. But if you make a particular argument, it is best to make a strong argument and not only that looks padded.
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That link showed ~1800 participants in female sports. There are others out there (can't find it at the moment, but it's been posted several times) showing ~1000 occasions where a PLACE was lost to a male in a female sport.

Are you really going to quibble that maybe 800 or so of those are "padded" because the male didn't actually *win* the female sport?
 
We created separate female sports teams and categories cuz frankly, men kick their asses in pretty much every sporting competion.

Speed, strength, etc.

And it appears that when transwomen participate in womens' competitions, they kick ass..just like their male counterparts.

How is this fair? Maybe we should just get rid of sex-separate sports and let the best competitor win. Even though we know for the most part it will always be the guys.
 
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Manopolus said:
To be honest, the trans-sports thing is something I couldn't give a crap less about either way. I have no interest whatsoever in competitive sports, and would be perfectly fine if those didn't exist. So I don't tend to weigh in on the issue. I just don't even care what anybody decides should be done with that. I appreciate athletics and physical "fitness" (and BTW... I hate the word "fitness" due to it's clear association with eugenics), but have no appreciation whatsoever of why people think it has to involve a competition. Why can't we make ourselves more physically capable/active/beautiful/whatever without concocting arbitrary measures of comparison and giving away medals and money for something so inherently vain?
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We're social mammals, and competition is an inherent part of our species. This is true of other social mammals as well - they all compete in some way or other. Juvenile predators learn hunting skills via play fighting and stalking - it's rewarded play that serves to hone skills needed to survive. In most mammals, males also physically compete in order to mate. Note that this doesn't mean females are attracted to the most aggressive male, but it does get rid of the competition and narrow the selection available to females.

Humans are no longer hunter-gatherer tribes. But the instinct to compete is still there, and it will probably always be there. It evolved over the course of several million years, and we've only been stationary societies for around 10,000 or so.
 
Emily's Cat said:
That link showed ~1800 participants in female sports. There are others out there (can't find it at the moment, but it's been posted several times) showing ~1000 occasions where a PLACE was lost to a male in a female sport.

Are you really going to quibble that maybe 800 or so of those are "padded" because the male didn't actually *win* the female sport?
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Also, he fails to consider that rankings in sport can often determine funding and scholarships snd therefore the division the athlete ends up in. Divisions are limited in number... For example, the top division for a given sport might be the top 40 rankings, division II could be those ranked 41 to 80, and so on down. Every time a failed male athlete cosplays as a woman, multiple women are pushed out of their rightful divisions into a lower one. This affects which tournaments they can play in, which in turn affects future earnings for professional athletes.
Will Thomas, the cosplaying swimmer who called himself "Lia" pushed a girl at UPenn out of a scholarship.
 
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Emily's Cat said:
We're social mammals, and competition is an inherent part of our species. This is true of other social mammals as well - they all compete in some way or other. Juvenile predators learn hunting skills via play fighting and stalking - it's rewarded play that serves to hone skills needed to survive. In most mammals, males also physically compete in order to mate. Note that this doesn't mean females are attracted to the most aggressive male, but it does get rid of the competition and narrow the selection available to females.

Humans are no longer hunter-gatherer tribes. But the instinct to compete is still there, and it will probably always be there. It evolved over the course of several million years, and we've only been stationary societies for around 10,000 or so.
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Is this somehow intended to make me care about sports? It failed miserably.
 
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