Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Brainster]

The Democrats have apparently decided this is the hill they will die on.

Senate Democrats voted unanimously to block a Republican-led bill Monday evening that would prohibit federally funded schools from allowing transgender athletes from participating in women's sports.

In a party-line vote of 51-45, Democrats filibustered the Protection of Women and Girls in Sports Act, introduced by Sen. Tommy Tuberville, R-Ala. It fell short of the 60 votes needed to advance as Democrats dismissed it as a distraction and a cynical political move.

One can admire their determination to stick to their principles, while questioning if they have really thought things through.

 

[d4m10n]

If you want to have a debate about whether or not CAIS should be defined as male or female, that debate belongs here not in this thread.

Which post are you complaining about?

 

[d4m10n]

One can admire their determination to stick to their principles, while questioning if they have really thought things through.

It's difficult for me to think of a less popular hill to die on than allowing people who went through male puberty to take up spots in women's rosters, podiums, record books, & locker rooms. This is cult-like behavior, for the sake of a tiny fraction of athletes who have no compunction leveraging an unfair advantage.

 

[theprestige]

If you want to have a debate about whether or not CAIS should be defined as male or female, that debate belongs here not in this thread.

He's complaining about how CAIS individuals are handled in a recent change to trans rights in public policy. I think it makes more sense to discuss it here.

 

[smartcooky]

The Democrats have apparently decided this is the hill they will die on.

One can admire their determination to stick to their principles, while questioning if they have really thought things through.

Senate Democrats block GOP-led bill to ban transgender athletes from women's sports

Republicans are trying to keep the national spotlight on the issue after Trump and some of the party's down-ballot candidates ran on it in the 2024 election.

www.nbcnews.com

A New York Times/Ipsos poll conducted in January found broad opposition to transgender athletes in asking respondents whether “transgender female athletes — meaning athletes who were male at birth but who currently identify as female” — should be allowed to compete in women’s sports. In response, 79% of American adults said they “should not” be allowed while 18% said they “should be allowed.”​

Democrats in the Senate are clearly having difficulty reading the weather.

There are more important issues at play in the US right now, than pandering to a tiny minority. By not allowing this bill to pass, these Democrats have allowed the Repugnicans to continue using the transgender issue as a cudgel to beat them over the head with. If they were able to take their blinkers off, they would have seen that voting for that bill (unanimously would have been best) would have whipped the rug out from under Tuberville's feet, and taken that particular weapon away from Repugnicans.

 

[smartcooky]

He's complaining about how CAIS individuals are handled in a recent change to trans rights in public policy. I think it makes more sense to discuss it here.

But the disagreement is over whether CAIS are male or female - that is an argument over definitions.

 

[theprestige]

But the disagreement is over whether CAIS are male or female - that is an argument over definitions.

The way I understand it, CAIS are classified as biologically male, and the issue is whether they should be treated as female in public policy. Damion is "concerned" because they generally pass as female, but the EO enforces their biological classification.

 

[d4m10n]

I'm going to avoid the CAIS talk here going forward, except to point out that you all have convinced me that the intersex lobby was strategically correct to side with the trans lobby, given that the former will be taking splash damage from the EO intended to target the latter.

In more on-topic news, Richard Dawkins weighs in and he's still got it:

Is the Male Female Divide a Social Construct or Scientific Reality?

In November 2024, the Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF) published a silly article by one of their staffers, Kat Grant (“they, them”) called What is a Woman? The indefatigable Jerry Coyne took the trouble to write a reply, called Biology is not Bigotry, which the co-directors of FFRF...

richarddawkins.substack.com

 

[Paul2]

Democrats in the Senate are clearly having difficulty reading the weather.

It's raining.

 

[Paul2]

Admittedly, not all individuals produce gametes at all, or throughout their life. Worker bees are sterile females. We call them female because they have the potential to produce macrogametes. Every worker would have turned out as a queen if she had been fed differently as a larva. That’s “potential”. A human male baby or foetus has the potential to produce microgametes, for all that he doesn’t produce any yet. An old woman remains female, though she has ceased to produce ova.

Richard Dawkins. Source

Forgive me.

 

[Rolfe]

Still uses "preferred pronouns" though. Coward. (I like the bit about it being necessary to respect every noun's preferred pronouns in order to speak French correctly, mind you.)

 

[d4m10n]

At least we have language police on both sides now.

 

[smartcooky]

Still uses "preferred pronouns" though. Coward.

The fact that he put those promouns in scare quotes within brackets... ("They/Them") pretty much tells me he was extracting the Michael!

 

[Rolfe]

Not always.

 

[Rolfe]

Since this started with athletics...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897166273764843533

 

[angrysoba]

Since this started with athletics...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1897166273764843533

For what it is worth, I agree that transwomen should not be involved in women’s sport.

That said, if that website is the one I think it is, then I remember thinking it was a bit “padded”.

It’s definitely a problem when we are talking about podium finishes or Olympic places, etc… but….

It looked to me as though a LOT of the races and sporting events were things like “transwoman finished 117th in a triathlon”.

I don’t think anyone genuinely cares about THAT.

 

[angrysoba]

Still uses "preferred pronouns" though. Coward. (I like the bit about it being necessary to respect every noun's preferred pronouns in order to speak French correctly, mind you.)

The fact that he put those promouns in scare quotes within brackets... ("They/Them") pretty much tells me he was extracting the Michael!

No. Dawkins clearly has a different view to both of you. He explicitly states it here:

Partly influenced by Jan Morris and partly out of normal politeness, it is my custom to refer to people by their preferred pronouns.

So, no. He is not taking the piss, and I don’t see why he should be considered a coward for opposing the radicals on both sides of this issue.

Is it perhaps that both of you have adopted the slogan that the Personal Is the Political. This was a radical feminist idea that you don’t get to do what you want in your personal life. That your personal choices must be made for the political aims of the collective.

Dawkins is clearly making a valid distinction, in my opinion, to how he treats people personally and how he sees policies as they should exist in society. By calling him a coward for making that distinction, it seems to me that you are trying to press his personal life into the service of your own political aims.

I respect Dawkins for having that distinction and I treat with suspicion the commissariat mind that wants to regulate people’s personal choices.

 

[d4m10n]

In women's prison news, a surprisingly progressive ruling from a conservative judge:

Judge blocks transfers of 3 transgender inmates to men's prison

A federal judge has agreed to temporarily block prison officials from transferring three incarcerated transgender women to men’s facilities and terminating their access to hormone therapy under an executive order signed by President Donald Trump.

apnews.com

 

[Rolfe]

For what it is worth, I agree that transwomen should not be involved in women’s sport.

That said, if that website is the one I think it is, then I remember thinking it was a bit “padded”.

It’s definitely a problem when we are talking about podium finishes or Olympic places, etc… but….

It looked to me as though a LOT of the races and sporting events were things like “transwoman finished 117th in a triathlon”.

I don’t think anyone genuinely cares about THAT.

The woman who finished 118th may care.

 

[theprestige]

For what it is worth, I agree that transwomen should not be involved in women’s sport.

That said, if that website is the one I think it is, then I remember thinking it was a bit “padded”.

It’s definitely a problem when we are talking about podium finishes or Olympic places, etc… but….

It looked to me as though a LOT of the races and sporting events were things like “transwoman finished 117th in a triathlon”.

I don’t think anyone genuinely cares about THAT.

If it's a problem, it's a problem. If you think men shouldn't compete in women's sports, then you think it's a problem all the way down the line. There is no "it's a problem but only at the very to" nuance here.

Also, you're eliding the other important aspect of this issue: Men claiming they have a right to compete in women's sports if they say they want to. Deny that right, and let each sports organization decide for itself its own policies, and I have no problem with men competing in women's sports where that policy is in effect (and the women know ahead of time what the policy is).

It's men showing up at the women's registration desk and saying they have a right to compete if they want, and being allowed to compete out of a fear of legal repercussions if they deny the right, that is the problem.

Get rid of the entitlement to fiat self-ID in sports, prisons, and the other things, and the matter will probably sort itself out.