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Face, meet leopard. Leopard, meet face.

A very early example of Schadenfreude (begins at 2:24-->):
MAGA Ignorance Comes At A Cost (Dark Brandon on YouTube, Nov 26, 2024 - 4:21 min.)
In this segment we look at Trump voters realizing the impact of their vote on their healthcare and health services.

Is it funny that people who voted for Trump may also lose their access to healthcare? I can see the irony, but ...
Wouldn't it be better to point out that Trump voters and Harris voters are in the same boat, in this respect? (The commentator points that out!)
To me, it seems to be similar to laughing at people who are taken in by the lies of psychics or telemarketers - except that, in this case, everybody (except the billionaires and, maybe, professional politicians) are potential victims of Trump.
 
Earlier watched some videos touted as instances of Schadenfreude by Trumpies and posted in various centrist/liberal channels were found to be guys taking the mickey. Case in point, there was one guy who began to talk about his job with a USAID "Schoolbus Project" was canceled and was devastated that he could no longer find out why "the wheels of the bus went round and round". This was just one video...there were many more with such silly testimonials. I was stupefied at how so many liberals in the west were so desperate to clutch at straws and share those videos.
 
Earlier watched some videos touted as instances of Schadenfreude by Trumpies and posted in various centrist/liberal channels were found to be guys taking the mickey. Case in point, there was one guy who began to talk about his job with a USAID "Schoolbus Project" was canceled and was devastated that he could no longer find out why "the wheels of the bus went round and round". This was just one video...there were many more with such silly testimonials. I was stupefied at how so many liberals in the west were so desperate to clutch at straws and share those videos.
To show everyone the abject moronicity of the people who make those videos. And for a laff.
 
A very early example of Schadenfreude (begins at 2:24-->):


Is it funny that people who voted for Trump may also lose their access to healthcare? I can see the irony, but ...
Wouldn't it be better to point out that Trump voters and Harris voters are in the same boat, in this respect? (The commentator points that out!)
To me, it seems to be similar to laughing at people who are taken in by the lies of psychics or telemarketers - except that, in this case, everybody (except the billionaires and, maybe, professional politicians) are potential victims of Trump.
I think there is a mixture of straightforward amusement, irony and schadenfreude. And which is the predominant depends on the story. Take for instance the one I've posted about the woman wanting free IVF. She was willing to ignore Trump is a serial sexual assaulter, and she was willing to listen to friends and family claim the women who he assaulted were lying even though she'd been sexually assaulted and couldn't speak about it, she ignored what people were saying his plans were to reduce the federal work force, ignored how he behaved last time he was president all because she heard him say apparently that he would make IVF free. I can't beyond a standard level of human empathy for anyone suffering feel sorry for her, she has lost her job, lost her medical coverage, lost rights to maternity leave etc all because she once heard him say IVF would be free. It's not even as if IVF costs that much, in the UK if it's not being provided by a NHS it's around £5000 to £6000 a cycle, presumably because of the exchange rate that's the same in dollars in the USA. So yes I find it ironic the situation she is in.

To me this thread isn't really about humour but incredulity about how some people were fine with Trump until it hit them personally, you know if it hadn't hit them personally they'd still be gung-ho about what was happening to "them".
 
The fairly obvious and ultimate intention is to remove all card-holders, and then funnel all VA purchases through a Trump/Musk business entity. A small "processing fee" will, of course, be necessary. :sarcasm:

That wouldn't happen because the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau would prevent it. Oh, Wait...
 
OMG!!!!! We absolutely have to allow fraud and waste and inefficiencies to keep eating up taxpayer money, there's no possible way we could avoid that. People are going to DIE!!!

Are you unable to conceive of a way to treat veterans efficiently, without wasting taxpayer money? Seriously, you fail at basic business sense.

Immediately buys into the baseless claim that any of this is about fraud and waste, offers zero evidence that any of this is about fraud and waste, accuses everyone else of stupidity for not believing any of this is about fraud and waste. Folks, it’s damn hard to find razor-sharp argumentation like this these days.

Also, if I’m on an internet desperately trying to fool people into believing I’m not a right wing Trump supporter, I probably wouldn’t give up the game so easily by saying things like “basic business sense” when describing how best to run government programs.
 
I can't beyond a standard level of human empathy for anyone suffering feel sorry for her, she has lost her job, lost her medical coverage, lost rights to maternity leave etc all because she once heard him say IVF would be free.
I can't even give her that much. Zero. Nada. Bupkis. Figuratively, ◊◊◊◊ her!
 
To quote James O'Brien, "Hate the conman, not the conned"
Depends on what con they bought, I guess. If they spent a load on a piece of junk presented to them as a "trans-killing death ray", or a toothless housecat billed as a "Haitian-eating leopard" then hating the conned might just be appropriate.
 
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To quote James O'Brien, "Hate the conman, not the conned"
She knew what he was selling. She knew that what he was selling would have horribly negative effects on millions of people. Knowingly choosing to let millions die or be hurt so you can have a baby is some seriously ◊◊◊◊◊◊-up evil!
 
A Hungarian (John Cleese) enters a tobacconist's shop<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Hungarian_Phrasebook#cite_note-AllTheWords-p16-2"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a> carrying a Hungarian-to-English phrasebook and begins a dialogue with the tobacconist (Terry Jones); he wants to buy cigarettes, but his phrasebook's translations are wholly inaccurate and have no resemblance to what he wants to say.
Sorry, I'm pretty drunk now,
Did some Wiki-ing and was surprised to learn that skit was actually based on a real (and equally hilarious) phrase book!

O novo guia da conversação em portuguez e inglez, commonly known by the name <i><b>English as She Is Spoke</b></i>, is a 19th-century book written by Pedro Carolino, with some editions crediting José da Fonseca (page does not exist)">José da Fonseca</a> as a co-author. It was intended as a conversational >phrase book</a>. However, because the provided translations are usually inaccurate or unidiomatic</a>, it is regarded as a classic source of unintentional <a href="/wiki/Humour_in_translation" title="Humour in translation">humour in translation</a>.
 
Did some Wiki-ing and was surprised to learn that skit was actually based on a real (and equally hilarious) phrase book!

O novo guia da conversação em portuguez e inglez, commonly known by the name <i><b>English as She Is Spoke</b></i>, is a 19th-century book written by Pedro Carolino, with some editions crediting José da Fonseca (page does not exist)">José da Fonseca</a> as a co-author. It was intended as a conversational >phrase book</a>. However, because the provided translations are usually inaccurate or unidiomatic</a>, it is regarded as a classic source of unintentional <a href="/wiki/Humour_in_translation" title="Humour in translation">humour in translation</a>.
Those "<" in place of "[" are gravely disturbing, yet oddly illustrative.
 
To quote James O'Brien, "Hate the conman, not the conned"

Depends on what con they bought, I guess. If they spent a load on a piece of junk presented to them as a "trans-killing death ray", or a toothless housecat billed as a "Haitian-eating leopard" then hating the conned might just be appropriate.

She knew what he was selling. She knew that what he was selling would have horribly negative effects on millions of people. Knowingly choosing to let millions die or be hurt so you can have a baby is some seriously ◊◊◊◊◊◊-up evil!

Agreed. If the con was “I’m going to hurt other people but not you” I won’t lose a wink of sleep hating the conman and the conned.
 
A very early example of Schadenfreude (begins at 2:24-->):


Is it funny that people who voted for Trump may also lose their access to healthcare? I can see the irony, but ...
Wouldn't it be better to point out that Trump voters and Harris voters are in the same boat, in this respect? (The commentator points that out!)
To me, it seems to be similar to laughing at people who are taken in by the lies of psychics or telemarketers - except that, in this case, everybody (except the billionaires and, maybe, professional politicians) are potential victims of Trump.
This particular psychic promised to make their life better by making their neighbour's life miserable. Don't worry, his psychic powers told him that the neighbour deserves it. After hearing that, they almost punched a hole through the psychic's contract in the frenzy to sign it.

And even when the psychic betrays them, they still believe their neighbour deserves it.
 
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I can speculate, but I don't have direct knowledge.
I do have direct knowledge. I used to have a P-Card. Not federal, but most likely functionally the same.

1) The more people with purchasing authorization you have, the higher the likelihood of fraud, and the higher the threshold for action against fraud ends up being. It's hard to tackle $50 worth of fraud happening across 5,000 people... so companies end up looking for big and obvious fraud and the threshold rises. I'm extrapolating based on the type of fraud monitoring I see in my company with respect to provider charges. If the claim is less than $5,000 we pretty much just ignore it, because there are so many claims it would be impossible to evaluate all of them. We absolutely know we're overcharged for things, but we can only reasonable monitor a small number of claims, so we only focus on the big ones. So I assume that the same dynamic is in place here - it's really only the big cases of fraud that get actioned. The article references 1% fraud, which ends up being $600 Million.

A couple of things here.
First of all, P-Cards are not the only way to make purchases. There are other ways as well, such as purchase orders and the like.

Second, purchases with P-cards go through the same approval process as purchases that are made through other means. the review happens after the fact rather than prior to the purchase. If a purchase is not approved, the P-Card holder is responsible for the purchase. I've seen this happen when someone accidentally paid with the wrong card. It was deducted from their salary.

By the way, the example above is not "fraud." I've noticed that word used lately in places where "waste" or "things I disagree with" would be the more accurate terminology.

Anyway, it's actually pretty difficult to use a P-Card for personal purchases. Even small ones. Here, every purchase gets signed off on by three people, working its way from project, to department, to institution. P-Card or otherwise. (I'm one of the people with approval authority on some of the accounts.)
2) There is an administrative cost to having that many cardholders. Cards have fees associated with them, charge tracking, billing, accounting, etc. Those things aren't free, and the costs add up. Having fewer cardholders means having fewer costs.
This is true, at least to an extent. The cards aren't free. This is why I no longer have my P-Card. I used it something like twice in five years, so it didn't make sense for me to have one. This saved on the card fees. But the rest of the costs were still in place because reducing number of cards does not reduce the number of transactions. Administrative overhead doesn't change much.
3) With more purchasers, there's a higher likelihood of ending up with duplicated items. It's entirely possible that the needed item already exists within the facility, or at a nearby facility, so there's no need to order one. In your example, sure, it's *easier* for each department to order what they think they need... but that also means that Department A might order three widgets and only use two of them, then Department B orders four widgets and only uses two of them, and Department C finds they need a widget so they order one because they aren't aware that there are three spare widgets sitting around between Departments A and B. Having more purchasers increases the risk of having duplicates that aren't all well-tracked and accounted for, leading to inefficient purchases and overspend.
Yes, and no. That has less to do with purchasing than it does with inventory management. And those are not remotely the same thing. A centralized purchasing department is not going to know That department A and B have extra widgets. they just know that they purchased widgets for department A and B and now department C needs some. What actually reduces duplicate orders is not central purchasing, but the heads of Departments A, B, and C talking to each other every now and then.

You may think that centralized purchasing has a handle on inventory, but the reality is that they don't for most things.

4) Bulk purchasing can usually get better pricing. When there's centralized purchasing, especially for more commonly used items, you get a deal. If every department in my company were to go out and buy their own laptops, for example, the cost would be many times higher than having one small part of our tech services department purchase all of the laptops for the company in bulk.
Again, you don't seem to be familiar with how large organizations work.

For an agency as large as the VA, DOD, or a major University, they will have a contract negotiated with vendors that gives a discount for list price. For example, we have a contract with Thermo-Fisher that gives us a reduced price on lab supplies. The price is not negotiated each time we make a purchase, but the discount is negotiated annually. When we order, say, pipette tips, we go onto the portal and make the purchase. If we need it quickly, we can use our P-Card. We get the negotiated bulk price. (Similar deal with CDW and Dell.)

We still have to fill out a purchase request/justification just like any other purchase.

You mentioned laptops. Typically, one would not purchase a laptop with a P-Card, unless instructed to do so by purchasing. (Because it sometimes makes things easier.) But even if I did, I would get the same deal from Dell that our IT department would get. But computers are a bad example anyway because most large organizations (like government agencies) require IT to make those purchases and set the computers up for security reasons. If you took your P-Card to best buy to get a computer, you would end up paying for it yourself.

Larger items (>$100,000) would need to go out for bid unless it was covered under one of the negotiated contracts. (We can buy an ICP-MS from Thermo without going through a competitive bid because of the contract I mentioned.) But you couldn't put that on a P-Carde anyway as the limit isn't that high.

A side note:
When you are dealing with scientific/medical supplies, it's generally better to have the people who use them determine exactly what needs to be purchased. Purchasing people usually don't have the technical background that would allow them to shop around.
 
Agreed. If the con was “I’m going to hurt other people but not you” I won’t lose a wink of sleep hating the conman and the conned.


I'm treating your response as including the people you're agreeing with. And yes, I get it and emotionally I agree. But these people didn't get this way by themselves, they've been gaslit for a long time and the real bad guys have poured a lot of money & effort through their news papers, media outlets and social media platforms to turn us non-billionaires against each other. I don't know if they can be brought back to common cause, but perhaps when they feel the teeth in their own faces it might be worth trying?
 
I'm treating your response as including the people you're agreeing with. And yes, I get it and emotionally I agree. But these people didn't get this way by themselves, they've been gaslit for a long time and the real bad guys have poured a lot of money & effort through their news papers, media outlets and social media platforms to turn us non-billionaires against each other. I don't know if they can be brought back to common cause, but perhaps when they feel the teeth in their own faces it might be worth trying?
More likely it will take rampant poverty, disease, hunger and deaths to really get people to realize they've been had and to mobilize. Then again, people have an immense capacity to delude themselves and be deluded, so maybe not. Maybe it'll just become civil war, widespread terrorism, gangs and warlords, Mad Max landscapes, nuclear destruction, widespread disease, human sacrifice, cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria, etc.
 
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This is true, at least to an extent. The cards aren't free. This is why I no longer have my P-Card. I used it something like twice in five years, so it didn't make sense for me to have one. This saved on the card fees. But the rest of the costs were still in place because reducing number of cards does not reduce the number of transactions. Administrative overhead doesn't change much.

It bears pointing out that the action being commented on does nothing to reduce the actual number of cardholders. The cards are still out there, requiring service; they are simply being crippled by ridiculous $1 spending limits. This is probably the worst of both worlds: Joe Taxpayer is still paying for these cards, but is getting no value for them, since the cardholders cannot use them.
 
It bears pointing out that the action being commented on does nothing to reduce the actual number of cardholders. The cards are still out there, requiring service; they are simply being crippled by ridiculous $1 spending limits. This is probably the worst of both worlds: Joe Taxpayer is still paying for these cards, but is getting no value for them, since the cardholders cannot use them.
Good point.

I'm also not convinced that a reduction in the number of cardholders is appropriate. It may be, or it may not.

Without looking back, someone calculated that five cardholders per hospital would be needed. This number supposes that the cards would be held by some central purchasing people, on or two being on duty at a given time and that the P-Cards would be needed only for emergency "need it now" purchases. Neither really works.

A unit the size of a hospital will have its own purchasing department. Obviously, this is better than having to utilize a national department in D.C. (or another remote location), but it still has the purchaser far removed from the need.

I suspect most departments within the hospital will have some sort of administrative staff. A unit secretary, office manager, etc. Those people often serve as a more localized purchasing agent for the department. They are close enough to work directly with staff to get the correct stuff without wasting doctor/nurse time on purchasing. Often department heads or unit coordinators might have a card as well. (Handling purchasing within the department helps with prioritization, by the way. Things just run much smoother.)

It would probably be appropriate and efficient to have one or two P-Cards per department within a facility. Which probably is where we get 12,000. Most of those cards probably stay in desk drawers most of the time, but it's nice to have someone with one available when you need it.

Basically, what's going to happen is they will take the ability to use the cards away and then see who ends up needing it after a few months. It's a dumb way to reel in excess cards. A better way is to just look at how frequently cards have been used and then ask the people who don't use them if (and why) they really need them.

Of course, that assumes that the people "breaking things" actually want the departments to be functional and efficient.
 

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