Is Jesus's "this generation will certainly not pass" valid grounds for scepticism?

You accept that the 'transitionary' can last a while? Quite a while?
No. It's only the brief movement between one state and the other.

Atheist just means you do not believe in a god, not that you say a god cannot be (antitheism). An agnostic has no active or even passive belief in any god/s. "I don't know" is not at all off the "There is no god I believe in" spectrum.
 
No. It's only the brief movement between one state and the other.

Atheist just means you do not believe in a god, not that you say a god cannot be (antitheism). An agnostic has no active or even passive belief in any god/s. "I don't know" is not at all off the "There is no god I believe in" spectrum.
Agnosticism should remain what it has always been and indeed why the word was created, i.e. it is the opposite of gnosticism (note not gnostic as used to describe some of the earlier Christian religions). An agnostic is not saying they "don't know" if god/s exist or not (such a person is an atheist since they don't hold a belief in god/s) they are saying that as humans we can never have the knowledge of god/s existence. It is possible to be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist.

One either believes in god/s or doesn't. A "I don't know if god/s exists" is still a statement of atheism.
 
No. It's only the brief movement between one state and the other.

Atheist just means you do not believe in a god, not that you say a god cannot be (antitheism). An agnostic has no active or even passive belief in any god/s. "I don't know" is not at all off the "There is no god I believe in" spectrum.
A little confusing for me.
 
A little confusing for me.
The difference between an atheist and a theist is whether you believe in a god. An agnostic (as you are using the term) says "well i really don't know", but that's not the question. The question is if you *do* believe in a god. An agnostic does not. An agnostic is an atheist that keeps the door open. S/he hasn't taken that binary step to belief. This is one of those rare binary things, with no sea of gray. Theist: you believe in a god. Atheist: you do not believe in a god (importantly, distinct from saying "there is no god").

ETA: the question is "do you believe in god?" If the answer is yes, y'all is a theist. If it is "no", "i don't know", "well it's possible..." or anything else, the answer is you are an atheist, one who definitionally does not actively believe in a god.

It doesn't mean you are closed minded to acknowledge you are in fact an atheist, when you see yourself as an "uncommitted" agnostic. It just means you understand what the terms imply.
 
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Agnosticism should remain what it has always been and indeed why the word was created, i.e. it is the opposite of gnosticism (note not gnostic as used to describe some of the earlier Christian religions). An agnostic is not saying they "don't know" if god/s exist or not (such a person is an atheist since they don't hold a belief in god/s) they are saying that as humans we can never have the knowledge of god/s existence. It is possible to be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist.

One either believes in god/s or doesn't. A "I don't know if god/s exists" is still a statement of atheism.
Strictly, yes, but agnosticism, in the god sense, has broadened its meaning beyond that a bit.

ETA: Poem is saying "I am not pro-god, nor anti-god. I'm in uncommitted option 3". It's important to make it clear that Option 3 is in fact atheist, and that the term 'atheist' isn't a bad word, or reflecting a committed position.
 
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Q: Are you an atheist?
A: Depends what you mean by 'God'.

The God that creates the universe remains a possibility...so does the universe creating itself ex nihilo.
 
Q: Are you an atheist?
A: Depends what you mean by 'God'.

The God that creates the universe remains a possibility...so does the universe creating itself ex nihilo.
But the question "are you a theist?" has no ambiguity. That's why we usually don't ask it you are a "not-something". It can be ambiguous.

ETA: actually, the question "are you someone who does not actually believe in a god?" is not all that ambiguous.
 
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Q: Are you an atheist?
A: Depends what you mean by 'God'.

The God that creates the universe remains a possibility...so does the universe creating itself ex nihilo.
So does an invisible space whale that shoots laser out of its eyes and eats asteroids.
 
Could you clarify your meaning please?
The agnostic concept that the existence of God is unknowable can be applied to every other phenomena that lacks supporting evidence. And yet, most people don't think the existence of invisible magical creatures is a possibility worth considering, except when it comes to God.

You can be agnostic both about God and about invisible unicorns, and this would be a sensible though pedantic position. It's not a particularly helpful opinion in most cases, and people generally don't seriously consider the existence of invisible unicorns.

If your agnosticism regarding God somehow differs from your agnosticism regarding invisible unicorns, then it doesn't seem to be true agnosticism.
 
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The universe creating itself is evidenced?

Why do you use that word "creating?" To speak of creation implies a creator, thus closing the smallest diameter circular argument going.

"Coming into existence" doesn't imply creation. It's also a difficult concept, and maybe that's why religionists don't like or use it. But do correct me if I'm wrong about that.
 
Why do you use that word "creating?" To speak of creation implies a creator, thus closing the smallest diameter circular argument going.

"Coming into existence" doesn't imply creation. It's also a difficult concept, and maybe that's why religionists don't like or use it. But do correct me if I'm wrong about that.
Coming into existence is a better phrase - I should have used it.
 
Collins wrote a book and gave his reason. He was hiking in the Pacific Northwest and came across a waterfall that froze into three branches. That convinced him that the Trinity was true.

A Citation would help. That is not my understanding of why he has faith.
'I was hiking in the Cascade Mountains on a beautiful fall afternoon. I turned the corner and saw in front of me this frozen waterfall, a couple of hundred feet high. Actually, a waterfall that had three parts to it — also the symbolic three in one. At that moment, I felt my resistance leave me. And it was a great sense of relief. The next morning, in the dewy grass in the shadow of the Cascades, I fell on my knees and accepted this truth — that God is God, that Christ is his son and that I am giving my life to that belief.'
https://www.premierchristianity.com...atheist-to-christian-convert/2339.articlewere complaining about obsession.
 
Nope - agnostic is a belief about limits of knowledge - i.e. "a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God".
One either believes in god/s or doesn't. A "I don't know if god/s exists" is still a statement of atheism.
I don’t think professed agnostics always express a deep thought about their position. Often it is simply a statement that atheism seems too strong, and agnosticism seems more in between.

I have book (forgotten the name, but I presume I can find it if necessary) where the author calls himself an agnostic. He knows all the atheist arguments against God (yes, just the one), but he desperately wants to believe anyway. He comes out more of an atheist, though an unwilling one.
 
I don’t think professed agnostics always express a deep thought about their position. Often it is simply a statement that atheism seems too strong, and agnosticism seems more in between.
Sort of. An agnostic says "I neither believe nor disbelieve". Which is fine, but doesn't address the question of whether or not they actually belive in a God. "I don't know if there is one" is functionally "I do not believe in a god", whether or not they are still open to evidence and persuasion.
I have book (forgotten the name, but I presume I can find it if necessary) where the author calls himself an agnostic. He knows all the atheist arguments against God (yes, just the one), but he desperately wants to believe anyway. He comes out more of an atheist, though an unwilling one.
Sagan is pretty dope on that point. He will not say there is no God, because he knows of no persuasive evidence against it (unlike the teapot orbiting Saturn), so he calls himself agnostic. He is also very likely showing deference and respect to his very religious colleagues in doing so.
 
Q: Are you an atheist?
A: Depends what you mean by 'God'.

The God that creates the universe remains a possibility...so does the universe creating itself ex nihilo.
The universe creating itself is evidenced?
For someone who says they are an atheist, you sure lean on a lot of Christian apologetics.

We don't know God being a possibility for anything is reasonable. The saying "anything is possible" simply is not true.

And who said anything about the Universe creating itself? Christians often make moronic statements such as this. And usually follow it up with a special pleading sequitor that God is eternal. Why can't the Universe be eternal? Or why can't energy and matter be eternal? Which is what I find to be the most likely possibility. But inevitably, I don't know.
 

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