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Split Thread Diversity Equity and Inclusion and merit in employment etc

arthwollipot said:
www.huffpost.com

Trump Erased Trans People From Stonewall’s Website. They Showed Up In Person.

“We know what Stonewall was. And we're here to protect that history."
www.huffpost.com www.huffpost.com
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Never should have been there in the first place.

And for the sake of your precious DEI, gender expression is already a protected class, in law, against discrimination in employment, housing, etc.

The only exclusions they suffer from are the same exclusions all men suffer from, in sex segregated contexts. That and the same exclusion all people suffer from, in accurate historical depictions of things they weren't involved in.

If you want to argue that they should be entitled to these things instead, you know where to go. Do the right thing.
 
Keep to the topic, please, folks, and this is not the thread for detailed discussion of trans and related issues, you know where to take that.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: zooterkin
 
arthwollipot said:
You know my opinion on this subject. I'm not going to go into it here.

I'm just going to say that you can't be trans-hostile and inclusive.
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American inclusionary law and DEI policies, even under Trump, are trans inclusionary in every way that matters. If we say that Native Americans didn't put a man on the moon, we're not being hostile and exclusionary to them. We're making an accurate historical record. Likewise if we say that white men didn't invent algebra, the Chinese didn't found Christianity, and the Turks did not invent sausage. None of these would be hateful and exclusionary, in the context of equal rights and DEI.

Contrariwise, asserting any of these things to be true, under the banner of DEI, makes a counterfeit of DEI, and is an act of hate and exclusion towards the people who really did those things. This practice, of promoting hate and exclusion in the name of DEI, is rampant in America today. Which is what we keep trying to tell you.

And you're doing it, too! You champion one minority to the exclusion and even erasure of others, in the name of DEI. You're practicing the very evil you say is impossible by definition.
 
jt512 said:
It's sickening that people lie. Nobody is telling schools they can*t have tutoring programs for poor kids.
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Yeah, I really don't get this complaint. Why the hell would you make a tutoring program DEI in the first place? Are you only helping the poor black kids and ignoring the poor white kids?
 
The U.S. Department of Education has issued a "dear colleague" letter giving schools and colleges 14 days to dismantle all overt or covert DEI activity or face loss of federal funding. The letter reiterates that, whether under the banner of "DEI" or not, "discrimination on the basis of race, color, or national origin is, has been, and will continue to be illegal." As the letter elaborates:

If an educational institution treats a person of one race differently than it treats another person because of that person’s race, the educational institution violates the law. Federal law thus prohibits covered entities from using race in decisions pertaining to admissions, hiring, promotion, compensation, financial aid, scholarships, prizes, administrative support, discipline, housing, graduation ceremonies, and all other aspects of student, academic, and campus life.​

Specifically, all educational institutions must within 14 days:

(1) ensure that their policies and actions comply with existing civil rights law; (2) cease all efforts to circumvent prohibitions on the use of race by relying on proxies or other indirect means to accomplish such ends; and (3) cease all reliance on third-party contractors, clearinghouses, or aggregators that are being used by institutions in an effort to circumvent prohibited uses of race​
 
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Ziggurat said:
Yeah, I really don't get this complaint. Why the hell would you make a tutoring program DEI in the first place? Are you only helping the poor black kids and ignoring the poor white kids?
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If a school is choosing kids for a tutoring program based on their race (and I would bet money that such programs exist), the school is violating federal law.
 
jt512 said:
If a school is choosing kids for a tutoring program based on their race (and I would bet money that such programs exist), the school is violating federal law.
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Indeed. It's rather strange that they even need an executive order to stop violating the law. It's also strange that they don't seem to think they can run a tutoring program that doesn't violate the law.
 
Perhaps too on topic: A law school student (who apparently hates Trump) has been covering the FAA's (Federal Aeronautics Administration, responsible for air traffic in the USA) DEI-based Hiring Scandal:

A scandal at the FAA has been moving on a slow-burn through the courts for a decade, culminating in the class-action lawsuit currently known as Brigida v. Buttigieg, brought by a class who spent years and thousands of dollars in coursework to become air traffic controllers, only to be dismissed by a pass-fail biographical questionnaire with a >90% fail rate, implemented without warning after many of them had already taken, and passed, a skill assessment. The questionnaire awarded points for factors like "lowest grade in high school is science," something explicitly admitted by the FAA in a motion to deny class certification.
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That one may need a little translation. There was a questionnaire given to prospective Air Traffic Controllers, and people who said their lowest grade in high school was in science got a huge bonus. BTW, for college students the bonus was for saying their worst subject was Political Science.
Here's the background:

Historically, the pipeline into air traffic control has followed a few paths: military veterans, graduates of the "Air Traffic-Collegiate Training Initiative" (AT-CTI) program, and the general public. Whichever route they came from, each candidate would be required to take and pass the eight-hour AT-SAT cognitive test to begin serious training. This test was validated as being effective as recently as 2013.
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Well, you can see the fly heading rapidly towards that ointment, right? That dreaded cognitive test wasn't being passed by a diverse enough workforce. In fact, it was discovered that the FAA was perhaps the least diverse federal agency in 2009, so:
In 2012, Team 7 members met with the secretary of the Department of Transportation, the FAA administrator, and senior FAA leaders to discuss diversity, after which the FAA commissioned a "Barrier Analysis" with a number of recommendations. Central to this: the cognitive test posed a barrier for black candidates, so they recommended using a biographical test first to "maximiz[e] diversity," eliminating the vast majority of candidates prior to any cognitive test.
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Eliminating the vast majority of candidates if they were white and male, in other words (although there may have been too many white female ATCs, the story does not elaborate). The biographical test is online and let's just say that it's kind of bizarre. Most of the questions are actually worth zero points (IOW it doesn't matter what you answer) but the "lowest grade was in science" is +15. By comparison, saying you mostly got B's in school was worth 4 points.

Anyone with a grain of sense can see what was going on. The FAA went through their applications with a fine-tooth comb and found the point values they could award to biographical questions that would result in the necessarily diverse workforce.
 
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Ziggurat said:
Indeed. It's rather strange that they even need an executive order to stop violating the law. It's also strange that they don't seem to think they can run a tutoring program that doesn't violate the law.
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Under executive orders issued by Biden, organizations receiving federal grants were required to institute DEI programs that violated civil rights law. Executive orders mandating that government contractors violate civil rights law date back to the Johnson administration. For these reasons, countermanding executive orders are necessary.
 
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Ziggurat said:
Yeah, I just did the sample questions, and it's really weird. It's really not OK that anyone thought this was a good idea.
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This one's pretty good:

36. In the three years prior to applying to this job, the number of formal suggestions I have submitted to my employer(s) is:

A Not employed: +10 points
B 0 +8 points
C 1 +6 points
D 2 +4 points
E 3 or more: +2 points.

We are looking for people who will shut up and do what we tell them, not waste precious management time with their idiotic ideas on how to improve things.
 
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Ziggurat said:
Yeah, I really don't get this complaint. Why the hell would you make a tutoring program DEI in the first place? Are you only helping the poor black kids and ignoring the poor white kids?
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It's an improvement from only helping the poor white kids and ignoring the poor black kids - which was what was going on as you very well know.
 
arthwollipot said:
It's an improvement from only helping the poor white kids and ignoring the poor black kids - which was what was going on as you very well know.
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I don't know that this was going on at the school in question. I don't even know what school it was. Nor do you, I suspect. And why are you satisfied with just "better" racism rather than no racism?
 
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