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Merged The razor of Hitchens and the Spirits!

Calderaro said:
What makes this claim extraordinary? And what would be the standard of evidence that you consider appropriate?
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A claim is extraordinary when it is incompatible with known science.
Calderaro said:
The Sagan Standard starts from a materialist premise, assuming that only physical and measurable phenomena are real. This is a bias that excludes a priori the possibility of the existence of non-material realities, such as spirits.
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If it is not physical and not measurable, on what basis can we call it real?
Chanakya said:
Repent! Recant!! Heresy!!! Spirits!!!!

Goat!!!!! Testicle!!!!!! One!!!!!!! You!!!!!!!!

Pseudoskeptic!!!!!!!!! You!!!!!!!!!! Reject!!!!!!!!!! Destiny!!!!!!!!!!!
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Steady on, Shatner.
 
Calderaro said:
I believe in the existence of spirits! Because Jesus believed in spirits! Just read the New Testament!
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I don't think a guy with a career batting average of .253 would be my go-to source for spiritual existence. Sure, he has 402 homeruns in his nine years in the big leagues, but that's hardly divine intervention.

You are talking about Jesus Aguilar, currently with the Oakland/Sacramento/Las Vegas A's. right?
 
Axxman300 said:
We'd be happy with ANY evidence at this point.
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Except that anecdotal evidence is evidence, and we're not happy with it for this purpose for the reasons belabored over 30+ pages. We need testable evidence. We need objective evidence. We need the kind of evidence that science would use to confirm the presence of a black hole. That's not extraordinary evidence.
 
Calderaro said:
If someone demands extraordinary evidence for the existence of spirits, but accepts lesser evidence for other claims (such as the existence of black holes before their direct confirmation), this reveals an inconsistent bias.
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Oh Junior, do us a favor and explain the equations which became the foundation for the existence of Black Holes. Just show you can do math at that level, because I can't. And you just shot yourself in the foot...again. See, Black Holes started as a thesis back in 1783 with a guy named John Mitchell, and later in 1916 Karl Schwarzschild took the concept, and did the math. Those equations where presented to his peers, who checked his work, and found everything added up. But an actual Black Hole would not be identified until 1971, and the first photograph came in 2019.

This is what scientists call, "Pretty flipping cool".

Now over that same time span Parapsychology arose as a science, and has yet to offer proof of anything.

I don't think Mitchell would be remembered if he said that Jesus told him there were Black Holes, and Karl Schwarzschild would have wasted everyone's time with Youtube videos is such things existed in 1916. And in 1916 the concept of a Black Hole was extraordinary, as is the math to back up the theory.
 
JayUtah said:
Except that anecdotal evidence is evidence, and we're not happy with it for this purpose for the reasons belabored over 30+ pages. We need testable evidence. We need objective evidence. We need the kind of evidence that science would use to confirm the presence of a black hole. That's not extraordinary evidence.
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At this point I'm not sure he's being honest about his claims. Were are the details? So far we have some kind of illness being cured, standing in the door with spirits passing through his body, and a dead friend being "present". No details about his heart rate, temperature drops or increases, odors, time of day, time of year. Not much to work with.
 
arthwollipot said:
A claim is extraordinary when it is incompatible with known science.

If it is not physical and not measurable, on what basis can we call it real?

Steady on, Shatner.
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Haha, just trying to get through to him, just maybe, by speaking to him in his language, both the form of it and the content of it. And maybe ending up overdoing it, just a bit?
 
Axxman300 said:
Oh Junior, do us a favor and explain the equations which became the foundation for the existence of Black Holes. Just show you can do math at that level, because I can't. And you just shot yourself in the foot...again. See, Black Holes started as a thesis back in 1783 with a guy named John Mitchell, and later in 1916 Karl Schwarzschild took the concept, and did the math. Those equations where presented to his peers, who checked his work, and found everything added up. But an actual Black Hole would not be identified until 1971, and the first photograph came in 2019.

This is what scientists call, "Pretty flipping cool".

Now over that same time span Parapsychology arose as a science, and has yet to offer proof of anything.

I don't think Mitchell would be remembered if he said that Jesus told him there were Black Holes, and Karl Schwarzschild would have wasted everyone's time with Youtube videos is such things existed in 1916. And in 1916 the concept of a Black Hole was extraordinary, as is the math to back up the theory.
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He well might have, though. That's the kind of world we live in. Overwhelmingly so, at one time. Then it got better. But now, it's regressing back, seemingly, to something like that again. Not completely, never completely: but someone that successfully pulls off a stunt like that will probably be better remembered, much better, and more zealously followed, than Mitchell was. (I confess I myself did not know his name, before reading your post.)


eta: Agree 100% with your post itself, and the point it makes, obviously.
 
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Axxman300 said:
Oh Junior, do us a favor and explain the equations which became the foundation for the existence of Black Holes. Just show you can do math at that level, because I can't. And you just shot yourself in the foot...again. See, Black Holes started as a thesis back in 1783 with a guy named John Mitchell, and later in 1916 Karl Schwarzschild took the concept, and did the math. Those equations where presented to his peers, who checked his work, and found everything added up. But an actual Black Hole would not be identified until 1971, and the first photograph came in 2019.
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Maths, you've got a hope! I've spent almost 20 pages trying to get him to define two terms he used in one of his posts. You don't just get to forget about this Calderadro, if you introduce something as evidence you have a moral responsibility to the people who are giving up their time to read and respond not to waste their time with random BS you cut and paste without even attempting to understand.

Answer the question!
 
Calderaro said:
Pseudoskeptics use the Sagan Standard dogmatically, demanding unrealistically high standards of proof to reject claims that challenge their beliefs, without considering the available evidence fairly.
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Given that you responded to a post of mine, let me repeat: I did not use Sagan's argument, quite the opposite. I was merely asking for the forms of evidence used day in day out by biologists, geologists and a host of other scientists, which are not extraordinary.

These standards are NOT, as you suggest elsewhere, "impossibly high" but are used every sodding day.

Stop deflecting and just deal with some questions.
 
Calderaro, what tests have you done to demonstrate the existence of spirits? What test would you like us to conduct that might convince us skeptics? I'm game for trying what you suggest.
 
Ryan O'Dine said:
Calderaro, what tests have you done to demonstrate the existence of spirits? What test would you like us to conduct that might convince us skeptics? I'm game for trying what you suggest.
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Before Calderaro changes the subject again there are outstanding questions about things he's already introduced he might answer.
 
Believing in spirits is a matter of faith or intuition, not scientific evidence. This does not make the belief any less valid, just different
 
Cosmic Yak said:
Calderaro, have you heard of something called "the full stop"?
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just because something seems extraordinary today doesn't mean it's impossible or false, just that our current understanding may be limited
Einstein's theory of relativity was initially seen as extraordinary and counterintuitive but is now widely accepted
 
P.J. Denyer said:
Calderaro, people on this forum have given you a lot of time & attention and had very little engagement back. How about you reassure us that you're not just another seagull poster by answering a really basic question?

Since you introduce introduced this hypothesis (it certainly isn't a theory), what do YOU understand the terms "Microtubules" and "Quantum Information" to mean and how do they relate to each other and/or interact?
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Calderadro, stop spouting your pointless non-sequiturs and answer this basic question about something YOU expected us to spend time watching. Your refusal to do so is rude and shows that you are not here to have a real discussion.
 
Is anyone else reminded of when some fundy Christian schools were handing out assignments to students telling them to go to an 'atheist' site and convert people. IIRC we didn't get many of them because, I suspect, we were a pretty good guarantee of a failing grade!
 
Cosmic Yak said:
Calderaro, have you heard of something called "the full stop"?
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Calderaro said:
just because something seems extraordinary today doesn't mean it's impossible or false, just that our current understanding may be limited
Einstein's theory of relativity was initially seen as extraordinary and counterintuitive but is now widely accepted
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I guess that's a "no", then. :xrolleyes
 
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