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Does the Shroud of Turin Show Expected Elongation of the Head in 2D?"

theprestige said:
You might possibly be the only person in the world who thinks they know what blood type is on the shroud.
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He's also almost certainly the only person in the world who thinks they know what blood type Jesus was, and hence knows that the one he thinks is on the shroud is "the right one".
 
Pixel42 said:
He's also almost certainly the only person in the world who thinks they know what blood type Jesus was, and hence knows that the one he thinks is on the shroud is "the right one".
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Rational people would think that. But's there's very little rationality in the world of shroudies.
But I await @bobdroege7's return to elucidate us.
 
I think that this is right about where our intrepid protagonist takes a break to wrestle with the cognitive dissonance provoked by realizing he claimed to know Jesus' blood type. Enjoy some sacks from.the concession stand or catch a smoke outside while we wait for him to sort it out.

* muzak version of The Girl From Ipanema plays gently in the background*
 
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Thermal said:
I think that this is right about where our intrepid protagonist takes a break to wrestle with the cognitive dissonance provoked by realizing he claimed to know Jesus' blood type.
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I'm not sure that's his claim, but I could be wrong. When asked how he knew AB was the "right" blood type, @bobdroege7 said it was because it was the blood found on the shroud. The argument seems to be that since the blood type AB is so rare (with or without the D antigen), its purported discovery on the shroud means that a forger hundreds of years ago would have to know this fact in order to provide the blood that would match the later discovery—not necessarily that it was because it was supposed to be Jesus' blood. He seems to think there would be a need in the 13th century to know what type was going to be discovered on the cloth in the 20th century, and therefore a need to provide it without even knowing that such a factor existed. The rarity of that particular type creates the illusion that this target would be too hard to hit. Yes, that's an obviously circular argument, but @bobdroege7 has demonstrated he is particularly susceptible to circular arguments.
 
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JayUtah said:
I'm not sure that's his claim, but I could be wrong. When asked how he knew AB was the "right" blood type, @bobdroege7 said it was because it was the blood found on the shroud. The argument seems to be that since the blood type AB is so rare (with or without the D antigen), its purported discovery on the shroud means that a forger hundreds of years ago would have to know this fact in order to provide the blood that would match the later discovery—not necessarily that it was because it was supposed to be Jesus' blood. Yes, that's an obviously circular argument, but @bobdroege7 has demonstrated he is particularly susceptible to circular arguments.
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But what would the rarity have to do with anything, and make it as definitively asserted "the right" type?

From what breezing around this thread has inspired (always the silver lining, even with kooky claims), True Shroud believers seem to think the rare AB blood type is associated with special and magical people, hence its rarity.

Eta: I think that Jesus having AB was his assumption, built on the narrative of Shroud true believers, and this may be the first time he realized he had no basis whatsoever for it
 
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Thermal said:
But what would the rarity have to do with anything, and make it as definitively asserted "the right" type?

From what breezing around this thread has inspired (always the silver lining, even with kooky claims), True Shroud believers seem to think the rare AB blood type is associated with special and magical people, hence its rarity.
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If the forger had failed to get blood of the same type that was found on the shroud, there would have been a temporal paradox and the entire universe would have imploded.
 
Thermal said:
But what would the rarity have to do with anything, and make it as definitively asserted "the right" type?
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That would be the red herring I identified earlier.

Thermal said:
From what breezing around this thread has inspired (always the silver lining, even with kooky claims), True Shroud believers seem to think the rare AB blood type is associated with special and magical people, hence its rarity.
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I seem to recall that too. It seems to be tautologies all the way down. That's why I said I can't be sure that's the argument. It's hard to convince people that their reasoning is circular because circular arguments are often predicated on one premise taken for granted. It's often an unstated premise because the proponent has never thought to question it.
 
Mojo said:
If the forger had failed to get blood of the same type that was found on the shroud, there would have been a temporal paradox and the entire universe would have imploded.
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There is a competing theory which states this has already happened.
 
bobdroege7 said:
If you are assuming all the variation is due to random error, you are making a bad assumption.

They picked an area of the shroud where medieval repairs were done, that's on hypothesis as to why the chi^2 test failed
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As I said...
Don't expect me to comment on this paper until you demonstrate that you have read my post #341, especially why you consider unquantified heterogeneity to be "a problem", and why the issues I raised don't apply to this paper.​
 
Mojo said:
If the forger had failed to get blood of the same type that was found on the shroud, there would have been a temporal paradox and the entire universe would have imploded.
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That's what I'm getting at.

A 13th century forger merely has to get his hands on human blood—any human blood. The probability that a later investigator will find the type of blood that was used hundreds of years ago is 100% because it's the same blood. It doesn't matter whether that blood type was common or rare either in the 13th century or in the 20th. It's the same blood, so tautologically it will be the same type.
 
JayUtah said:
That would be the red herring I identified earlier.


I seem to recall that too. It seems to be tautologies all the way down. That's why I said I can't be sure that's the argument. It's hard to convince people that their reasoning is circular because circular arguments are often predicated on one premise taken for granted. It's often an unstated premise because the proponent has never thought to question it.
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In the interests of fairness, bobdroge7 could clarify it himself, I suppose. By answering the direct question. Which is likely.
 
bobdroege7 said:
Dude, there more than 100 blood stains on the shroud.

A later embellishment?

Did the forger come back and adjust his painting of the shroud?

The blood type was AB, that's the right blood type because it's the blood type on the shroud.

The forger had no knowledge of blood typing. That's 20th century knowledge.
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Still not sure what your starting assumptions are, here. Could you please clarify?

The original shroud, if they were being historically accurate, would have had no blood stains. Body washed and anointed, savior in fact dead and no blood pumping, etc.

A later artist might have added all the blood stains, thinking it was more dramatic and maybe parishioners expected to see them.

I don't think any are authentic, because it was not a burial cloth, and not dating back to first century Jerusalem.
 
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Theologically, Jesus's blood type must obviously have been O Negative, in keeping with being the Universal Donor.

AB is exactly wrong. Maybe the Turin artifact is the Beast's burial shroud instead.
 
Myriad said:
Theologically, Jesus's blood type must obviously have been O Negative, in keeping with being the Universal Donor.

AB is exactly wrong. Maybe the Turin artifact is the Beast's burial shroud instead.
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I'm still confused as to why the blood type is significant in any way, since the shroud is not even from the same millennium as Christ.

Is @bobdroege7 claiming that the carbon dating is completely wrong?
 
I think he's claiming that the (alleged) bloodstains were added at different times by different forgers, who couldn't have known what blood type the bloodstains added by the other forgers were.

I seem to recall from the other threads about the shroud that it hasn't been established that there are actually any bloodstains on it.
 
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