RFK Jr, vaccines, and autism

[Pixel42]

You use words like "ludicrous" when, in reality, thinking it WASN'T "remarkable" or "mysterious" (to say the very least) is ludicrous.

It's inconceivable to look at that and think "Nah."

Yes, maybe people in Texas have guns. Yes, maybe Texas has a high murder rate.

But this wasn't a regular old shooting. This was the President, the guy who shot him, and the guy who shot the assassin.

What about this DOESN'T stink to high heaven!?

Even a surface-level summary of the events should make you think "WTF."

Nothing about it made me think it was particularly unlikely when it happened (I was 10 in 1963) and nothing about it makes me think WTF now. I remember being shocked and horrified, and I still am, but not surprised.

Kennedy was neither the first nor the last US President to be shot at. They're actually far more likely to be shot at than ordinary citizens; they (and ex Presidents) have security details for that very reason, And yet a lone nutter can still get close enough to take that shot, as we saw last year. And if the shooter's security is as lax as it was in 1963, that someone should be willing and able to take a shot at them in turn is also not remotely surprising. Nor is people dying in prison of natural causes, it happens all the time.

So no, nothing about this "stinks to high heaven". The most plausible explanation by far is the obvious and accepted one, no conspiracy theories are required or justified.

 

[EHocking]

Is there a full moon right now or something?

Yes and it’s making the glass in my windows flow.

 

[EHocking]

Trust me, they were tracking you. You just didn't see it.

I've heard other stories like this. I had a classmate who lived in New York and he, IIRC, got stopped at the Canadian border because (I am not making this up) his father was arrested for selling heroin in the 1970s and they assumed he was his father. Though his father was dead at that point. He was utterly astonished.

I have no reason to assume this classmate was lying to me.

“This is my grandmother we’re taking about!” , an a.f.u. newbie shibboleth
As is “heard it from a friend of a friend”

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Trust me, they were tracking you. You just didn't see it.

I've heard other stories like this. I had a classmate who lived in New York and he, IIRC, got stopped at the Canadian border because (I am not making this up) his father was arrested for selling heroin in the 1970s and they assumed he was his father. Though his father was dead at that point. He was utterly astonished.

I have no reason to assume this classmate was lying to me.

Must have been really really bad surveillance is they were tracking him but still mistook him for his father, and also that they didn't realise his father was dead.

 

[The Common Potato]

I once sailed down the Hudson on a big boat and wasn't hit on the head by an airliner. This is proof that Tom Hanks doesn't exist. (Like Australia, and birds.)

 

[The Common Potato]

"Dudes who get arrested" also lie.

Lock 'em up!

 

[Norman Alexander]

I don't see a connection between homeopathy and terrain theory. I decided to start a thread on terrain theory in Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories, so as not to lead this thread off on a tangent. I am beginning to believe that RFK Jr is a proponent of a soft version of it.

Homeopathy was vaguely associated with the idea of "miasms", a nebulous term for a sickness or even just an ill feeling, by its originator Hahnemann. But only very vaguely because homeopathy has been modified over time to include a lot of other weird ◊◊◊◊. The ultra-simple idea of terrain theory is that "a healthy body repels diseases". It also holds that an unhealthy body is afflicted by these vague illnesses, miasms. So there's that tenuous connection.

The whole lot is a bunch of cloudy hand-waving stuff anyway. And they constantly pull words out of a hat for some things that mean something else. You won't get the same definition from any two of them.

 

[arthwollipot]

They are "common knowledge". Don't let your education blind you to reality.

#1: Just because you "know" it doesn't mean that everybody else "knows" it. If the knowledge is that common, you should be able to produce evidence of it.

#2: Do you realise that you just said that education is the enemy of reality? Is it better to not get an education? I'll tell you. No. No, it is not. The benefits of education on a personal, economic and societal level have been securely established.

By the way, do you see what I did just there? That's called backing up your statements with evidence. You should try it some time.

 

[PookieBear]

Must have been really really bad surveillance is they were tracking him but still mistook him for his father, and also that they didn't realise his father was dead.

It was. He was astonished at their stupidity and lack of logic.

He complained about it and exclaimed "If I were him, I would be an old man by now! I am a college student! Can't you see I am in my 20s!?"

Their incompetence doesn't mean they AREN'T nosy, though.

This is a really obvious point. I am stunned you don't see that.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

It was. He was astonished at their stupidity and lack of logic.

He complained about it and exclaimed "If I were him, I would be an old man by now! I am a college student! Can't you see I am in my 20s!?"

Their incompetence doesn't mean they AREN'T nosy, though.

It is a requirement of conspiracy theories that the Evil Them are simultaneously fiendishly clever, able to control huge swathes of the world, hoodwink the populace, and devise elaborate secret plots, and yet clownishly incompetent, so much so that they failed to recognise someone they supposedly had under surveillance for years.
This enormous contradiction lies at the heart of your beliefs- and it makes those beliefs look foolish. How do you reconcile these two?

This is a really obvious point. I am stunned you don't see that.

As has been abundantly established, what you see as 'obvious' is not at all obvious to others. Perhaps you should examine your assumptions, and revise your (extremely low) standards of evidence.

 

[PookieBear]

It's not an enormous contradiction. Not by any means. The evil and the sinister make mistakes. You can be evil (and nosy) and make errors, after all.

Richard Nixon was both evil and stupid. The Watergate burglars were both evil and stupid. Remember how they got caught? Just look up the details. They were clowns! IIRC, their lookout went into a hotel room....and turned on the TV and watched it, instead of using his binoculars.

Look at the Bay of Pigs fiasco. These people were supposed to kill Castro and do acts of sabotage and gangster-ism. Instead, they got lost in a marsh or something.

I did examine my assumptions. I used to be the sort of person who would LAUGH at conspiracies. I was a huge skeptic.

Until I grew up and smelled the roses.

 

[Matthew Best]

Do you have reading difficulties? The contradiction is not that they are both evil and stupid. The contradiction is that they are both clever and stupid.

 

[PookieBear]

Do you have reading difficulties? The contradiction is not that they are both evil and stupid. The contradiction is that they are both clever and stupid.

That seems like a contradiction only to people who didn't study history in college, to be honest with you. Idiots get away with it all the time. All the time.

Take Reagan, for example. He was really dumb. Also a rapist. Also an airheaded actor.

Yet he was the author of Iran-Contra and got away with it. He was behind the October Surprise conspiracy, too. He got away with that, too.

While I am on the subject, Lance Armstrong also strikes people as a "dumb jock." Yet he got away with doping for 13 years or even longer than that! This despite people accusing him even in 1999.

On a sidenote, when Caitlyn Jenner was Bruce, she was obviously doping. There is no way to get from 10th place to 1st without cheating. She's not a smart person, alas. She has dyslexia and whatnot. And yet, she got away with it completely.

Just by looking at Bruce, you could have seen it. Why didn't the Soviet Union point it out? Beats me. Maybe they were doping, too.

 

[Axxman300]

It's not an enormous contradiction. Not by any means. The evil and the sinister make mistakes. You can be evil (and nosy) and make errors, after all.

Richard Nixon was both evil and stupid. The Watergate burglars were both evil and stupid. Remember how they got caught? Just look up the details. They were clowns! IIRC, their lookout went into a hotel room....and turned on the TV and watched it, instead of using his binoculars.

Look at the Bay of Pigs fiasco. These people were supposed to kill Castro and do acts of sabotage and gangster-ism. Instead, they got lost in a marsh or something.

I did examine my assumptions. I used to be the sort of person who would LAUGH at conspiracies. I was a huge skeptic.

Until I grew up and smelled the roses.

Your grasp of easy history is stunning. Not in a good way.

 

[PookieBear]

While I am on the subject, Kennedy was also an absolute idiot. The male equivalent of a bimbo, really. All he cared about was getting laid and getting amphetamines. I would normally not care about the sex but, in his case, you have to make an exception, since he was being blackmailed by his own FBI (among other things). He would do weird and sick things like forcing a female employee to pleasure a male employee while he watched. And our tax dollars paid for it, by the way.

However, did Kennedy manage to rig the elections against Nixon? Clearly.

Did he manage to assassinate the leaders of the Dominican Republic and Vietnam? Clearly.

Did he manage to grow a veritable cult of personality around his person that continues to this day? Clearly.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

This person asked "How come they are sophisticated enough to do modern surveillance but dumb enough to mistake a man for his father?"

Well, not quite, but close enough. How can they be so smart as to watch a military vet without that vet ever spotting them, yet fail to recognise that same person, and also not know his father was dead? That was what I actually asked.

Answer: believe it or not, they just are.

That is not an answer. "It's true because I say so" is not any kind of evidence. Nor, given your propensity to believe an apparently infinite amount of unevidenced crap, is your word alone anywhere near good enough.

 

[PookieBear]

Well, not quite, but close enough. How can they be so smart as to watch a military vet without that vet ever spotting them, yet fail to recognise that same person, and also not know his father was dead? That was what I actually asked.



That is not an answer. "It's true because I say so" is not any kind of evidence. Nor, given your propensity to believe an apparently infinite amount of unevidenced crap, is your word alone anywhere near good enough.

I was talking about 2 different people, though. One story was about airport security when my co-worker at the office was traveling. The second incident was about my former classmate.

Life has paradoxes. What can I tell you.

As usual, you resort to name-calling and insults. And your insults aren't even correct.

 

[zooterkin]

Several posts have been sent to AAH. Please return to the topic of this thread, and refrain from attacking one another.

Thank you.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: zooterkin

 

[Chris_Halkides]

At The Lancet Y. Tony Yang discussed measles and what RFK, Jr's leadership might bring. "WHO reported that measles cases increased globally from 8·6 million in 2022 to 10·3 million in 2023.1 Tragically, most of these infections occurred in low-income, conflict-ridden regions, where vulnerable populations are already struggling with inadequate access to health care...In the USA, Kennedy's influence could parallel the troubling trends observed in Florida under Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo, who has publicly questioned the necessity and safety of vaccines. Since Ladapo's appointment in 2021, childhood vaccination rates in Florida have fallen precipitously.5 A particularly telling case occurred in Broward County, where a measles outbreak sickened unvaccinated children. Despite clear US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidance, Ladapo's advisories contradicted science-based protocols, fuelling further mistrust in vaccines."

NBC News reported, "It’s not clear how Graven, who died in 2022, became acquainted with Children’s Health Defense, or why he left after only a year. He was not against vaccines, according to his widow, his brother and a colleague interviewed by NBC News. His brother, Kendall Graven, who is also a doctor, said Graven hoped to teach Kennedy about how data is often misinterpreted by anti-vaccine supporters. Kennedy “was only mildly open to the concept of safe vaccines, in spite of Mike’s efforts,” Kendall Graven said, adding that “the Samoa catastrophe was nothing he discussed with us, other than to say it was a vaccine-preventable tragedy.”"

 

[Thermal]

@PookieBear : I've started a thread in General Skepticism where you can hash out many of your arguments, while staying within the confines of your Membership Agreement. Use of it would certainly give the moderators less work to do. They don't get paid and all, so it's good form to not load them up with extra work.

You should be able to argue many of your points there without interference. And it is not restricted to one narrow topic!

Thread 'Claimant says what? Arguing the Strengths of Claims and Evidence'

Jan 27, 2025

ITT, we use real world examples of claims and their evidence to weigh their relative strengths and weaknesses. This. Is. Thunderdome!

• Thermal
• Replies: 4
• Forum: General Skepticism and The Paranormal