General UK politics VIII - The Last Tory

[jeremyp]

It is worth remembering that part of the UK has a 'nationalised' rail system.

About Us - Scottish Rail Holdings

railholdings.scot

Essentially the franchise holder - Scotrail - is a publicly owned body. Services are not noticeably better in Scotland than England.

This is one thing I don't understand about the whole issue. I remember the railways in England when they were previously nationalised. They were pretty ◊◊◊◊. The government was very bad at running a railway network and refused to do any investment if it could help it. Incidentally, the government still owns and runs the network. The franchise companies really just contract to provide the staff.

I don't think of it as being a cause for celebration that the whole thing is gradually being renationalised. The franchise system has been mostly a failure, but I honestly;y don't think it's going to get better.

 

[jeremyp]

Also today he says



This is over his milk shake thrower getting a none custodial sentence.

By the way, he was lying. At the time of the offence, Farage was a candidate for Clacton, not its MP.

Edit: Ninja'd by the Don

 

[Darat]

This is one thing I don't understand about the whole issue. I remember the railways in England when they were previously nationalised. They were pretty ◊◊◊◊. The government was very bad at running a railway network and refused to do any investment if it could help it. Incidentally, the government still owns and runs the network. The franchise companies really just contract to provide the staff.

I don't think of it as being a cause for celebration that the whole thing is gradually being renationalised. The franchise system has been mostly a failure, but I honestly;y don't think it's going to get better.

Yes British Rail of the olden times was pretty crap, but that was after about 20 years of purposeful under-investment, rail was considered by several governments as being something of the past*, but that thinking has pretty much turned 180 degrees and they are now seen as something of the future.

As with the water companies it was promised that privatisation would mean better trains and services as it would mean more investment in the trains and services. What happened is that the government subsidies continued (I believe at even higher rates than the old BR?) and shareholders extracted lots of money from the low hanging trees. So like the water companies we - the UK tax payers -got the worse possible deal and are left holding the baby.


ETA: *It's easy to see with hindsight that was a very mistaken opinion, but I think at the time most folk would have agreed with that opinion.

 

[Andy_Ross]

This is one thing I don't understand about the whole issue. I remember the railways in England when they were previously nationalised. They were pretty ◊◊◊◊. The government was very bad at running a railway network and refused to do any investment if it could help it. Incidentally, the government still owns and runs the network. The franchise companies really just contract to provide the staff.

I don't think of it as being a cause for celebration that the whole thing is gradually being renationalised. The franchise system has been mostly a failure, but I honestly;y don't think it's going to get better.

It was a matter of funding.
They weren't as ◊◊◊◊ as you remember. Most of it is mythology.
I could get on a train in Saltburn and only change once at Middlesbrough to get to Manchester, Newcastle or York and there was a train every half hour out through Middlesbrough to the mainline at Darlington.
Just before privatisation started the entire East Coast Mainline was electrified with new locomotives and rolling stock. There was even serious planning to put passenger services back on out through Saltburn along the still existing freight only line round to Skelton, Brotton, Loftus and right out to Staithes on the coast near Boulby Mine.
Plans were in place to re open the line from Nunthorpe out to Guisborough.

Privatisation was nothing more than a way to put public money in to private hands as usual.
If British Rail had the subsidy level that the private railways received the whole system would have been transformed.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Reform says that Starmer is going to cancel next year's local elections to stop Reform gaining power.
30p Lee says

Cowards.

When they can't beat you at the ballot box they take the ballot box away.

This is not some South American military regime.

 

[zooterkin]

Remind me how many seats Reform won in the recent by elections?

 

[Andy_Ross]

6 out of nearly 200 wasn't it?

 

[Andy_Ross]

According to Nigel cancelling elections in some areas of the country where Reform are gaining momentum is the act of a desperate government.

They have the audacity to call us a “threat to democracy” whilst they act like third world dictators.

Elon agrees with Nigel "Indeed" he says

https://twitter.com/x/status/1868712731601518964

 

[zooterkin]

What is this based on?

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Also today he says



This is over his milk shake thrower getting a none custodial sentence.

Plus, he wasn't an MP at the time, just a private citizen cosplaying as Roderic Spode.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Yes British Rail of the olden times was pretty crap, but that was after about 20 years of purposeful under-investment, rail was considered by several governments as being something of the past*, but that thinking has pretty much turned 180 degrees and they are now seen as something of the future.

As with the water companies it was promised that privatisation would mean better trains and services as it would mean more investment in the trains and services. What happened is that the government subsidies continued (
I believe at even higher rates than the old BR?) and shareholders extracted lots of money from the low hanging trees. So like the water companies we - the UK tax payers -got the worse possible deal and are left holding the baby.


ETA: *It's easy to see with hindsight that was a very mistaken opinion, but I think at the time most folk would have agreed with that opinion.

Doubled over about 20 years when adjusted for inflation. By the end of BR the state run company was getting £2bn per annum in 2018 money. By 2018 the private rail companies were getting £4bn at least. And that figure doesn't include infrastructure money to National Rail.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

What is this based on?

Tories cry foul as overhaul of English councils may delay local elections

Labour’s changes to local government may postpone votes in areas Conservatives and Reform UK were hoping to win seats

www.theguardian.com

Labour plan to replace 2-tier local government with unitary authorities might delay local elections next year.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

It was a matter of funding.
They weren't as ◊◊◊◊ as you remember. Most of it is mythology.
I could get on a train in Saltburn and only change once at Middlesbrough to get to Manchester, Newcastle or York and there was a train every half hour out through Middlesbrough to the mainline at Darlington.
Just before privatisation started the entire East Coast Mainline was electrified with new locomotives and rolling stock. There was even serious planning to put passenger services back on out through Saltburn along the still existing freight only line round to Skelton, Brotton, Loftus and right out to Staithes on the coast near Boulby Mine.
Plans were in place to re open the line from Nunthorpe out to Guisborough.

Privatisation was nothing more than a way to put public money in to private hands as usual.
If British Rail had the subsidy level that the private railways received the whole system would have been transformed.

And people judge it by today's standards, I've often heard people complain about how dirty the carriages were, and yes they were, but a lot of it was cigarette butts, the smell & residue of stale smoke, remember what most pubs were like then?

 

[Andy_Ross]

And people judge it by today's standards, I've often heard people complain about how dirty the carriages were, and yes they were, but a lot of it was cigarette butts, the smell & residue of stale smoke, remember what most pubs were like then?

Everywhere had a cigarette smell, people even smoked in hospitals.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Tories cry foul as overhaul of English councils may delay local elections

Labour’s changes to local government may postpone votes in areas Conservatives and Reform UK were hoping to win seats

www.theguardian.com

Labour plan to replace 2-tier local government with unitary authorities might delay local elections next year.

And again it was already in the works before Labour came to power.

 

[Vixen]

Labour is disgusting.

 

[jeremyp]

And again it was already in the works before Labour came to power.

That explains how they've managed to do this so quickly.

 

[Darat]

That explains how they've managed to do this so quickly.

I do think everyone should be in awe at what Labour has managed to do in the few scant months it has been in power, it's destroyed the NHSs - have you seen the waiting times and health outcomes? Growth of the economy has ground to a halt, immigrants are flooding the country with small boats - think that is the claim - I presume that they are coming along the flooded areas - another Labour failure - what has the environment department been doing? Oh and education - all the private schools have been shutdown... And I forget all the sewage being dumped by the water companies into our rivers and seas.

 

[The Don]

This is one thing I don't understand about the whole issue. I remember the railways in England when they were previously nationalised. They were pretty ◊◊◊◊. The government was very bad at running a railway network and refused to do any investment if it could help it. Incidentally, the government still owns and runs the network. The franchise companies really just contract to provide the staff.

I don't think of it as being a cause for celebration that the whole thing is gradually being renationalised. The franchise system has been mostly a failure, but I honestly;y don't think it's going to get better.

The levels of subsidy back in the British Rail days were tiny compared to the subsidies provided to the private rail companies.

If British Rail had been provided with a similarly generous level of subsidy then they could have offered a better level of service - and, unlike the privatised railway, continued to innovate technically.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Everywhere had a cigarette smell, people even smoked in hospitals.

I think if one was transported back to the 1970's it would be a bit of a shock how much dirtier & smellier a lot of things (and people) were. Not to say it wasn't a great time to be alive, I'm quite nostalgic for the period, but standards have changed a lot since then.