Declining IQ of college grads

[novaphile]

There is a lot of research about IQ levels and the factors which can influence it, here's a quick summary that I've gleaned over the years.

1. Genetics.
2. Nutrition and exposure to toxic substances during pregnancy.
3. A stimulating environment during first five years.
4. Adequate nutrition throughout childhood.
5. Exposure to language.

One that has been particularly fascinating to me, is about parents (and others) babbling 'baby talk' at developing children permanently affecting the child's ability to develop language skills.

This makes sense, to me, as the brain is trying to make language structures around nonsense, and it is doomed to fail.

I still shudder when I encounter adults who still use 'baby talk' in their normal interactions with other adults. (And wonder if they're dealing with permanent brain damage due to childhood language abuse.)

 

[Thermal]

There is a lot of research about IQ levels and the factors which can influence it, here's a quick summary that I've gleaned over the years.

1. Genetics.
2. Nutrition and exposure to toxic substances during pregnancy.
3. A stimulating environment during first five years.
4. Adequate nutrition throughout childhood.
5. Exposure to language.

One that has been particularly fascinating to me, is about parents (and others) babbling 'baby talk' at developing children permanently affecting the child's ability to develop language skills.

This makes sense, to me, as the brain is trying to make language structures around nonsense, and it is doomed to fail.

I still shudder when I encounter adults who still use 'baby talk' in their normal interactions with other adults. (And wonder if they're dealing with permanent brain damage due to childhood language abuse.)

There is a competing theory that my wife was telling me about when we had kids: babies can't really make heads or tails of speech at the baby talk stage, and are quite constructively stimulated by the adults mimicking their speech type, as if reaching out for common ground. My wife was very free with baby talk to the babies. One ended up a practicing lawyer, two are in doctoral programs, and all three exceptionally eloquent. Anecdotal, sure, but guided by a mom who dedicated her career to the study of human behavior.

As they develop language skills, it's important to keep challenging them to raise the bar. I made a point of speaking in French and Spanish to them as much as I could. All three speak passable tourist Spanish , and one is school certified as bilingual and biliterate. FWIW.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

I have been known to complain about a school policy that should be called:

"No child shall be allowed to get ahead."

It was my experience of primary school and high school, that they did their utmost to try and prevent me from getting an education. (They even went so far as to confiscate my books at school).

Fortunately that went away when I started my first degree.

Exactly so.

We took a tremendous amount of verbal abuse from the government school system for even suggesting our kids be enrolled at their academic level instead of their age group.

We visited the schools to show our kids what was going on in the defacto prison system. They told us what horrible parents we were.

This year, the local high school will finally allow our first son to enroll as a freshman.

But he's in his 5th semester of college taking calculus III and engineering. All the college cared about was scoring 100 on the math placement exam.

Our second son would be in 8th grade but he's in his freshman year at the University for the same reason.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Do you really not know what he means?

Of course he does. But I have wrong think. So it is important to make these kinds of puerile attacks.

As if I were the only one using that term, lol.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

The OP has in other threads bragged about his kids being smart from home-schooling, and this thread appears to be more of the same.

It just burns like hell fire to see someone outside the government school system doing so well.

 

[Thermal]

It just burns like hell fire to see someone outside the government school system doing so well.

No, you're reading that very wrongly. Posters here seem pretty indifferent to the "educational -industrial complex"(lol) and government prison schools, which you suddenly feel are where these alleged geniuses should be.

Also, you have unresponded-to posts criticizing your OP. An intellectually superior man would not continue to shy away from that. Did you want to discuss the thread topic you started, or bail when it was pointed out that you applied no critical thinking to it at all?

 

[Orphia Nay]

It just burns like hell fire to see someone outside the government school system doing so well.

Weird.

I didn't criticise homeschooling. You have every right to be proud. Own it.

 

[dudalb]

Here comes one of our resident Semi Anarchists.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

We took a tremendous amount of verbal abuse from the government school system for even suggesting our kids be enrolled at their academic level instead of their age group.

Verbal abuse, really?

We visited the schools to show our kids what was going on in the defacto prison system. They told us what horrible parents we were.

Schools are not a 'prison system'. Maybe they are right.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Verbal abuse, really?

Schools are not a 'prison system'. Maybe they are right.

They are right Alaska Bush Pilot has revealed in another thread that he considers his children, not as children ti be cherished or people with their independent needs or wants, but as economic units that are his to exploit.

 

[dann]

Declining IQ of EVERYBODY. Expect it to continue.

'Brain fog' from long Covid has measurable impact, study suggests (Guardian, Feb 28, 2024)
Even fully recovered survivors of mild COVID can lose IQ points, study suggests (CIDRAP, Feb 29, 2024)
COVID-19 Leaves Its Mark on the Brain. Significant Drops in IQ Scores Are Noted (ScientificAmerican, Mar 13, 2024)
COVID infections are causing drops in IQ and years of brain aging, studies suggest (CBC.ca, April 12, 2024)

Since April 12:
Not a Betteridge headline: Understanding the Impact of COVID-19 on Personality and Brain Function: A Grim Reality or a Wake-Up Call? (Infection Control Today, April 30, 2024)
Long-term cognitive and psychiatric effects of COVID-19 revealed in new study (University of Oxford, Aug 1, 2024)
COVID-19 Can Leave a Lasting Mark on the Brain (Time, July 19, 2024)
Also not a Betteridge headline: Did the Pandemic Break Our Brains? (Time, Sep 16, 2024)
Long COVID's Impact on the Brain, Specifically Cognitive Function (ContagionLive, Oct 18, 2024)
Mounting research shows that COVID-19 leaves its mark on the brain, including significant drops in IQ scores (YAHOO, Nov 24, 2024)

 

[Vixen]

Since April 12:
Not a Betteridge headline: Understanding the Impact of COVID-19 on Personality and Brain Function: A Grim Reality or a Wake-Up Call? (Infection Control Today, April 30, 2024)
Long-term cognitive and psychiatric effects of COVID-19 revealed in new study (University of Oxford, Aug 1, 2024)
COVID-19 Can Leave a Lasting Mark on the Brain (Time, July 19, 2024)
Also not a Betteridge headline: Did the Pandemic Break Our Brains? (Time, Sep 16, 2024)
Long COVID's Impact on the Brain, Specifically Cognitive Function (ContagionLive, Oct 18, 2024)
Mounting research shows that COVID-19 leaves its mark on the brain, including significant drops in IQ scores (YAHOO, Nov 24, 2024)

I wonder if the author of the [last] Yahoo article - who claims to be a medic - knows anything about IQ and how it works? He or she states:

In the same study, those who had mild and resolved COVID-19 showed cognitive decline equivalent to a three-point loss of IQ. In comparison, those with unresolved persistent symptoms, such as people with persistent shortness of breath or fatigue, had a six-point loss in IQ. Those who had been admitted to the intensive care unit for COVID-19 had a nine-point loss in IQ. Reinfection with the virus contributed an additional two-point loss in IQ, as compared with no reinfection.

Generally the average IQ is about 100. An IQ above 130 indicates a highly gifted individual, while an IQ below 70 generally indicates a level of intellectual disability that may require significant societal support. (My bolding.)

A small change in a test score - such as 'three-point loss' - is hardly representative of a 'decline in IQ', which, incidentally is NOT the same as 'memory'.

 

[dann]

No, IQ is not the same as memory. You measure IQ by means of an IQ test. There are other tests to measure memory.
And a three-point loss is insignificant when you look at one person, but if you look at a large group of people with and average loss of IQ points, it should be taken seriously as a 'mark on the brain'. It doesn't necessarily mean that brains have deteriorated. It may also indicate that e.g. education has, which is unlikely to be the cause of a drop in IQ points in adults.
That IQ has very little to do with intelligence is another thing.
IQ: The democratically purified racism (Skeptic Report)
How intelligent is the average IQ test designer? (Skeptic Report)

 

[Vixen]

No, IQ is not the same as memory. You measure IQ by means of an IQ test. There are other tests to measure memory.
And a three-point loss is insignificant when you look at one person, but if you look at a large group of people with and average loss of IQ points, it should be taken seriously as a 'mark on the brain'. It doesn't necessarily mean that brains have deteriorated. It may also indicate that e.g. education has, which is unlikely to be the cause of a drop in IQ points in adults.
That IQ has very little to do with intelligence is another thing.
IQ: The democratically purified racism (Skeptic Report)
How intelligent is the average IQ test designer? (Skeptic Report)

First of all you would need to know the IQ scores of the same people BEFORE the suggested 3-point loss, plus a control group of those who didn't suffer from Covid who were also tested under proper superivsed conditions. You need a minimum sample size of at least 200 (the generally accepted sample size minimum). You also need to include those who gained an IQ point or two. You also need to rule out other factors, such as age or underlying conditions other than post-Covid.

I would be so bold as to suggest the person who wrote the article simply either made up the figure or it was based on an anecdotary conclusion drawn from a small handful of people who (a) claimed to have a certain IQ and/or (b) having complained of 'brain fog' performed badly so as to underline their point, albeit subconsciously.

 

[Darat]

No, IQ is not the same as memory. You measure IQ by means of an IQ test. There are other tests to measure memory.
And a three-point loss is insignificant when you look at one person, but if you look at a large group of people with and average loss of IQ points, it should be taken seriously as a 'mark on the brain'. It doesn't necessarily mean that brains have deteriorated. It may also indicate that e.g. education has, which is unlikely to be the cause of a drop in IQ points in adults.
That IQ has very little to do with intelligence is another thing.
IQ: The democratically purified racism (Skeptic Report)
How intelligent is the average IQ test designer? (Skeptic Report)

ChatGPT back in 2023 I.e. two entire generations ago had an IQ of 155 (if memory serves me right), and since IQ measures an innate ability of humans, the well publicised g, it is therefore much more intelligent than most people.

I wonder how many of the proponents of IQ/g being an innate unlearnable measure of something in humans will agree that ChatGPT is more intelligent than most people on the planet. Oh but I forget, that’s different because….

 

[Vixen]

ChatGPT back in 2023 I.e. two entire generations ago had an IQ of 155 (if memory serves me right), and since IQ measures an innate ability of humans, the well publicised g, it is therefore much more intelligent than most people.

I wonder how many of the proponents of IQ/g being an innate unlearnable measure of something in humans will agree that ChatGPT is more intelligent than most people on the planet. Oh but I forget, that’s different because….

155 is meaningless information unless you give us the standard deviation of the normed test.

 

[Darat]

155 is meaningless information unless you give us the standard deviation of the normed test.

155 is meaningless information unless you give us the standard deviation of the normed test.

Found the article - my memory was correct: https://www.scientificamerican.com/...sis of,standardization sample of 2,450 people.

 

[Vixen]

Found the article - my memory was correct: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/i-gave-chatgpt-an-iq-test-heres-what-i-discovered/#:~:text=Estimated on the basis of,standardization sample of 2,450 people.

If the standard deviation, as stated is 15, then 155 would be +3.67 sd above the mean or, just under one person in10,000 (rounded) in a normal distribution population. I am guessing ChatGPT approached the maximum hence the designated score, the maximum being 160.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Distribution-of-intelligence-levels-based-on-WAIS-R-FSIQ-in-classic-adult-onset-and-mild_fig2_268878648

 

[Brainster]

ChatGPT back in 2023 I.e. two entire generations ago had an IQ of 155 (if memory serves me right), and since IQ measures an innate ability of humans, the well publicised g, it is therefore much more intelligent than most people.

I wonder how many of the proponents of IQ/g being an innate unlearnable measure of something in humans will agree that ChatGPT is more intelligent than most people on the planet. Oh but I forget, that’s different because….

I don't see any disconnect there at all. IQ measures the ability of a human to learn, and ChatGPT is apparently quite a learner. Indeed it is a little reassuring to hear that ChatGPT's IQ is only 155; lots of people (numerically, not as a percentage of course) have a higher IQ than that.

 

[Darat]

I don't see any disconnect there at all.
IQ measures the ability of a human to learn , and ChatGPT is apparently quite a learner. Indeed it is a little reassuring to hear that ChatGPT's IQ is only 155; lots of people (numerically, not as a percentage of course) have a higher IQ than that.

Since when has that been the claim? IQ is meant to provide a figure about an innate "power" g that an individual has. IQ proponents work hard to ignore the likes of improving IQ scores as more children are given better basic education.

ETA: As I noted that was when ChatGPT was tested in 2023, it's got way better since then.