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Kamala Harris Election Campaign

I recommend actually listening to them both. Hearing what they themselves actually say, and how they say it in context, provides a very different perspective than how they're "reported" by both new and social media. It also gives you a much more comprehensive sense of how much absolute propaganda is in play these days.

Harris is far less arrogant and much less of a salesman when they speak... but Harris often doesn't actually communicate anything meaningful with their words. There's a whole lot of words that add up to no answer at all. At the end of the day, both of them have lately been far more focused on trying to paint the other as the devil than on trying to win over voters with solid policy arguments. The frightening thing is that Trump has actually spent more time during their campaign directly addressing issues and policy questions - even if we disagree with their views, they are being communicated in a way that's understandable. Harris is less icky and dislikeable... but lacks content.

HARRIS "often doesn't actually communicate anything meaningful with their words"? Trump has even made up an excuse for his rambling, incoherent word salads by calling it "the weave".

"The frightening thing is that Trump has actually spent more time during their campaign directly addressing issues and policy questions - even if we disagree with their views, they are being communicated in a way that's understandable. Harris is less icky and dislikeable... but lacks content."

You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding. Me.
Trump spends most of his time repeating the same old crap which consists mostly of his grievances, repeating lies, and rambling on about nonsense.
 
HARRIS "often doesn't actually communicate anything meaningful with their words"? Trump has even made up an excuse for his rambling, incoherent word salads by calling it "the weave".

"The frightening thing is that Trump has actually spent more time during their campaign directly addressing issues and policy questions - even if we disagree with their views, they are being communicated in a way that's understandable. Harris is less icky and dislikeable... but lacks content."

You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding. Me.
Trump spends most of his time repeating the same old crap which consists mostly of his grievances, repeating lies, and rambling on about nonsense.
It's like they think stating the complete opposite of facts and truth will trick us into believing them. Do not believe your eyes and ears, believe the MAGA tells you instead....
They also seem to assume that we are only getting our information from a news bubble, and not actually listening or seeing what Trump does and says ourselves. They do the same thing with the Jan 6th insurrection, they claim it was a peaceful protest despite all of the evidence that it was not.
 
I think they believe they have the persuation powers of "The Force" when we can actually see what they try is The Farce.
 
I think there's a nuance involved here that gets overlooked, and that is a pretty fundamental aspect of the divisions in the country right now. The right absolutely insults the Democratic Party and Democratic politicians. They've done so for a long time, often in very unpleasant terms. More recently, within the last few elections, the left has begun to insult Voters who vote for Republicans. That might not seem like much to some of you, but it's a pretty important difference.

It's fine, for example, to say "The Cowboys Suck!!!!" or even to say "Dallas Sucks!!!!" when you're all riled up about a football game. It's a bit more below the belt to say "Cowboys fans suck!!!!".
Oh, good lord! Trump's own words:

"Any African American or Hispanic, if you know how well I'm doing, that votes for Kamala, you've got to have your head examined," Trump said.

""any Jewish person that voted for her [Harris] or him [President Biden] or whoever it's going to be...should have their head examined."

"Any Catholic that votes for Comrade Kamala Harris should have their head examined...."

"If any senior doesn't vote for Trump, we're gonna have to send you to a psychiatrist to have your head examined."
 
Earlier we were discussing the ad showing women secretly voting for Harris. This from Jesse Watters, MAGA moron on Fox, saying his wife (Emma) voting for Harris would be the same as her having an affair and he'd divorce her:
“If I found out Emma was going to the voting booth and pulling the lever for Harris, that’s the same thing as having an affair,” Watters told the rest of the panel. “That violates the sanctity of our marriage. What else is she keeping from me? What is she lying about?”

“Why would she lie to you?” fellow panelist Jeanine Pirro asked.

“Why would she do that and vote Harris? Why would she say she was voting… If I caught her and she said ‘I lied to you for the last four years’,” he added.

“It’s over, Emma!” Watters said in a mocking tone. “That would be D-Day!”


I also mentioned the religious "man is the head of the household" angle for a wife voting differently than her husband. This from nutjob misogynist Charlie Kirk promoting this crap:

"
Appearing on Megyn Kelly’s SiriusXM program, rightwing commentator and activist Charlie Kirk said Harris “needs people to basically lie to their husbands, which they are promoting ... I find that entire advertising campaign so repulsive. It is so disastrous ... It is the embodiment of the downfall of the American family.”

“I think it's so gross. I think it's so just nauseating where this wife is wearing the American hat. She's coming in with her sweet husband, who probably works his tail off to make sure that she can ... have a nice life and provide for the family,” he added.

“And then she lies to him, saying, ‘Oh yeah, I'm gonna vote for Trump.’ And then she votes for Kamala Harris as her little secret in the voting booth. Kamala Harris and her team believe that there will be millions of women that undermine their husbands, and do so in a way that it's not detectable in the polling.”
 
"I know he sexually assaults people, I know he's a convicted felon, I know he absolutely can't go 2 seconds without insulting someone, but...like...I super like his policies" has to be one of the ******* dumbest excuses to vote for someone I've ever heard. That's downright pathetic.

The one thing Trump does do is gets people to show who they really are inside. Someone who will stand by their morals or not.
This is an incredibly short-sighted and shallow view.

Give this some real though for a moment. Just imagine that you - a pretty staunch progressive so far as I can tell - end up with a Dem candidate in 4 years that has a criminal record, is a demonstrated liar, and is absolutely vile in your opinion. Don't tell me it's impossible or would never ever happen with a Dem, use your imagination on this.

Now... if the Dem candidate that you were presented with was someone you considered to be completely horrific and without a single moral bone in their body... would that prompt you to vote for a Republican? Would that single individual be so odious to you that you would entirely turn your back on the entirety of the Democratic party and vote for someone from a party that you are diametrically opposed to on nearly every policy position?

You talk about expecting people to stand by their morals, and that's fine. What you're failing to consider is that for someone who is actually a conservative, actually a republican... standing by their morals means NOT VOTING FOR A DEMOCRAT. The best you can ask is that they vote for a third party or a write in candidate, or perhaps decline to vote at all. But you've repeated expressed that in your view third-party voters are just as bad as being a Trump supporter.

Your position on this is irrational, and I very strongly suspect that you expect something from republicans and conservatives that you would never ever contemplate expecting from a fellow progressive or from yourself. You expect republicans to completely abandon all of their principles and values and turn coat to support a party that is in opposition to everything they believe. That's not just irrational, it's ridiculous.
 
This is an incredibly short-sighted and shallow view.

Give this some real though for a moment. Just imagine that you - a pretty staunch progressive so far as I can tell - end up with a Dem candidate in 4 years that has a criminal record, is a demonstrated liar, and is absolutely vile in your opinion. Don't tell me it's impossible or would never ever happen with a Dem, use your imagination on this.
I'm in a completely different boat than you so I can absolutely say that it's impossible. Luckily, the Dems don't seem to have this problem. Isn't that strange? I don't need to use my imagination because I already know the answer. If there was a Dem that was accused of what Trump has been accused, AND CONVICTED OF, then there is no chance they would get my vote. Ever. For any reason. Ever.
Now... if the Dem candidate that you were presented with was someone you considered to be completely horrific and without a single moral bone in their body... would that prompt you to vote for a Republican? Would that single individual be so odious to you that you would entirely turn your back on the entirety of the Democratic party and vote for someone from a party that you are diametrically opposed to on nearly every policy position?
You're implying right now that if the Dem had the exact same candidate as Trump rise to the level of POTUS nominee, and the GOP had a rational, intelligent, experienced person with a down-to-Earth platform and the knowledge to know the difference between right and wrong, would I change parties? Yes. Absolutely. Without even a second thought. I would be so ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ mortified that the people in my same political party would be insane enough to put a man like Trump as the head of my party that I would leave the party all together. I'd never go back.

You talk about expecting people to stand by their morals, and that's fine. What you're failing to consider is that for someone who is actually a conservative, actually a republican... standing by their morals means NOT VOTING FOR A DEMOCRAT.
And that's the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ pathetic part right there, that your values and morals as a Republican don't say "vote for who is best" they say "vote for Republicans no matter what". That actually explains a lot Emily's Cat, and you're finally coming around to admitting what you've been denying this whole time. You aren't a centrist, you're a Republican no matter who and that's your moral makeup.

I literally voted for Republicans 2 days ago. I voted for them for about 4 positions in my state because Dems don't have a great track record in North Dakota with parts of agriculture and some of the conservation projects. I do that because I believe it's what's best for my state and the people around me. The GOP I've voted for have a great track record in this state but people like our Governor, Secretary of State, etc. will never get my vote for any reason.
The best you can ask is that they vote for a third party or a write in candidate, or perhaps decline to vote at all. But you've repeated expressed that in your view third-party voters are just as bad as being a Trump supporter.
No, the best I can ask is that they have a little self respect, put their petty bull ◊◊◊◊ aside and think of the country and the damage Trump can do before they cast their vote. If they want to do like you and throw their vote away (though I'm not buying it), then that's fine to, or vote 3rd party. Whatever.

My views on 3rd party voting are that they are just a different way of supporting Trump, yes. That's correct. No one has to listen to me, and people rarely do. I also don't tell people how to vote. Little known thing about me but I drive people in my community to the polls if they need help. I do it every year, whether those people vote GOP or Dem, I don't even ask. It's none of my business.
Your position on this is irrational,
You definitely have that backwards.
and I very strongly suspect that you expect something from republicans and conservatives that you would never ever contemplate expecting from a fellow progressive or from yourself. You expect republicans to completely abandon all of their principles and values and turn coat to support a party that is in opposition to everything they believe. That's not just irrational, it's ridiculous.
That you view the Dem party as in opposition to all your values says everything anyone needs to know about your values. That you think the current Republican party represents your values says a lot about your values. I would absolutely expect myself or any progressive to vote for the more rational party. I already vote for rational Republicans in my state, there's no reason I wouldn't extend it further.
 
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This is an incredibly short-sighted and shallow view.

Give this some real though for a moment. Just imagine that you - a pretty staunch progressive so far as I can tell - end up with a Dem candidate in 4 years that has a criminal record, is a demonstrated liar, and is absolutely vile in your opinion. Don't tell me it's impossible or would never ever happen with a Dem, use your imagination on this.

Now... if the Dem candidate that you were presented with was someone you considered to be completely horrific and without a single moral bone in their body... would that prompt you to vote for a Republican? Would that single individual be so odious to you that you would entirely turn your back on the entirety of the Democratic party and vote for someone from a party that you are diametrically opposed to on nearly every policy position?

You talk about expecting people to stand by their morals, and that's fine. What you're failing to consider is that for someone who is actually a conservative, actually a republican... standing by their morals means NOT VOTING FOR A DEMOCRAT. The best you can ask is that they vote for a third party or a write in candidate, or perhaps decline to vote at all. But you've repeated expressed that in your view third-party voters are just as bad as being a Trump supporter.

Your position on this is irrational, and I very strongly suspect that you expect something from republicans and conservatives that you would never ever contemplate expecting from a fellow progressive or from yourself. You expect republicans to completely abandon all of their principles and values and turn coat to support a party that is in opposition to everything they believe. That's not just irrational, it's ridiculous.

If the Democrat in an election was an incoherent gibbering lunatic saying wildly dangerous things about what they’ll do once in office and the worst thing I could say about the Republican was that I didn’t agree with all of their policies, I would vote for the Republican in a heartbeat.

And it’s not even a dilemma because what you’re describing isn’t a dilemma. It’s the pathetic rationalization of someone who wants to absolve themselves for abandoning anything resembling values, principles, or decency.
 
Being a Dedicated Centrist requires one to hold the unwavering view that "both sides are equally bad." If this means that one must put their thumb on the scales in order to maintain the belief, then so be it.
 
This is a real offer: I will donate $100 to a charity of their choice if anyone claiming Trump is better on policy can cite one of those polices and a) explain in detail the net benefit of that policy and b) use only his words or official campaign materials as a source.

I don't want to see any Trumpsplaining. I want to see you quote Trump's statements on said policy and then defend his exact words.

And again, details please. "We need to close the border" isn't a policy position, it's a slogan. You would need to provide details on how the policy of closing the border would be carried out and why it's a net benefit, as Trump or his campaign has explained it.

Once you've met all those requirements, you can provide a link to your charity of choice and I will provide a receipt for the $100 donation.

In a shocking turn of events, I’ve somehow yet to get any takers on this. Call me a starry-eyed optimist, but I thought I’d re-up the offer for anyone who might have missed it. Looking forward to hearing about these amazing policy positions that make Trump so irresistible.
 
I would absolutely expect myself or any progressive to vote for the more rational party. I already vote for rational Republicans in my state, there's no reason I wouldn't extend it further.
If the Democrat in an election was an incoherent gibbering lunatic saying wildly dangerous things about what they’ll do once in office and the worst thing I could say about the Republican was that I didn’t agree with all of their policies, I would vote for the Republican in a heartbeat.
One caveat I'd add to that is they'd need to be someone I could trust to put country over party, when it comes time to choose. Most of the rational Republicans whose policies I merely disagree with have turned out to be perfectly happy supporting gibbering lunatics saying wildly dangerous things in order to continue running as Republicans. That they don't see anything wrong with that is one reason I find it disqualifying.

I'm sure there's still some line where a hypothetical rational Republican candidate would beat a sufficiently whackadoodle Dem, but it looks like I don't have any of those matchups on my current ballot. Darn. Maybe next election, if we still get to have one.
 

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