Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire IV

Attention please!

It has been brought to my notice that there is now a Europe-wide shortage of mulberry bushes and that all available goal posts are already in use, which poses significant problems for this thread, as we will need to invent some new metaphors for the activities engaged in hereabouts.

Thank you.
 
I keep my car key tucked inside my bra! It means it's always on me, and I can't divest myself of it by leaving a handbag in the house or taking off a jacket. I have to press a door button to open the car though, just grasping the handle won't do it.

One thing that can be annoying is that if you get out of the car even just to take off a jacket or wipe the windscreen, the car assumes you might be a different person when you sit down again and reverts some settings, most notably the LKA which is a pig and needs to be off, but the car keeps trying to make you have it on.

It needs driver profiles.
My car (Skoda Enyaq 85 which is obviously not identifying info) has driver profiles, though as I'm the only driver there's only one set up. I don't need to do anything with the keys to unlock or start the car, they just have to be near/in the car.
 
So I have acknowledged.

What exactly do you believe you have "acknowledged?" You "acknowledged" in the Carol Vorderman case that you had effectively made up something and tried dishonestly to pin it on me. Then you followed up by making up an entirely new thing and trying dishonestly to pin it on me. "Acknowledge" seems to do a lot of odd jobs in Vixenworld, none of which seem to amount to honestly ingesting information and incorporating it into your thinking.

Literally all the evidence says the initial vehicle in the Luton fire was diesel-powered and not any kind of EV or hybrid. That evidence is conclusive. You don't seem to acknowledge this. At best seem to be acknowledging that the fire services have said this. We suspect this because you go on to say :—

As the report only came out three days ago I will await to see the response and the outcome to it. I will reserve my opinion until I understand more about what happened with the vehicle involved.

First, if you're implying the report has described the vehicle inaccurately, then that further implies that the fire services are either lying or incompetent. This is a logical necessity whether you "acknowledge" it or not.

Second, you told us your plan already. You're waiting for the YouTube conspiracy machine to spoon-feed you the next iteration of the conspiracy theory so you can resume pretending you're smarter than everyone else. But since for now you're left to your own devices, you have to resort to cockamamie things like magic hybrids. You can't even come up with a non laughable conspiracy theory on your own.

You've never shown an iota of curiosity in this thread. It's all been self-serving imagination. You imagine that you're smart enough to look at few pictures and tell us what powered the vehicle. You imagine all kinds of behind-the-scenes shenanigans that amount to hushing up the investigation to protect business interests. Yes, you're asking questions. But those questions aren't aimed at discovering or developing new information. They're rhetorical questions aimed at validating your imagination. The latest of them boil down to little more than, "Why didn't they address my conspiracy theory? What are they hiding?"

You're not Curious Turkey. You behave more ike that one turkey who has eaten too much of those weeds growing in the corner of the barnyard.
 
Surely car manufacturers had some experience of how they worked before marketing them as a special feature and a hyped-up USP...?

No, you're not an expert in how products are developed and engineered for the consumer market.

Product development and all that. The idea didn't just come out of the blue.

I've been successfully developing products for decades. I'm an expert in it. You're not. What you say could have happened to make your magic hybrid is hilariously out of touch with reality.
 
So, whilst a car might be registered 2014 as 'diesel' or 'petrol' it doesn't rule out that it could still have had a lithium ion battery hybrid powertrain.

And the fire services fought their way to the vehicle in the rubble only to glance at the registration and say, "Well that does it, mate, it's a diesel vehicle." The fire services confirmed the vehicle type by looking at it, developing the evidence even up to the point of telling us what kind of engine it was.

But keep show us how "curious" you are by grasping at straws to keep your pet theory alive.
 
It doesn't have to fulfill any other obligation, such as road tax designation or automatic/manual transmission.

A paper definition is pointless. Hybrids actually exist. They have actually been built, and the principles of their engineering are well known. Yes, you can have a mild hybrid that simply adds an electric motor to the shaft to provide a small boost and regenerative braking. And those drive trains can have a traditional gearbox and clutch. But the batteries in those systems are two orders of magnitude smaller (ca. 80 Ah) than serial or parallel hybrids whose fires you showed us. And serial/parallel hybrids cannot have a traditional transmission. But they can have big batteries.

Once again your frantic Googling produces something you think is helpful. But since you can't Google for expertise and experience, once again you're left utterly ignorant of how things actually work. You're still inventing things that can't or don't exist so that you can pretend your conspiracy theory isn't completely absurd.
 
Attention please!

It has been brought to my notice that there is now a Europe-wide shortage of mulberry bushes and that all available goal posts are already in use, which poses significant problems for this thread, as we will need to invent some new metaphors for the activities engaged in hereabouts.

Thank you.

A vixen...
old-toilet-10559500-560979123.jpg


Specifically referring to any post made by some, claiming to be authoritative...
But in reality, its broken, doesn't work- and nobody wants to be near it...
:D
 
A hammer isn't the best tool for smashing a car window, you would be better off with something sharp.
there are several special pointed hammers for breaking car windows. A spring loaded 'automatic' centre punch used for marking metal is also a very good option.
I picked up a bunch of the little glass-breaker hammers (with LED torch, pressure gauge and belt cutter) at a trade show. Gave most of them away.
 
Obviously you have never been stalked.

Yes, I have—by people who were evidently conspiracy theorists. Back when I limited my debunking to the Apollo space missions, I received two overt threats: one death threat and one threat of indeterminate harm. I reported them and luckily they came to nothing. I've had two people call up my business and try to get me fired. That would be hard, since I own the business with partners.

Despite that, I can tell you I drive a black 2015 Audi A3 2.0 L turbo, four-door with a petrol engine and a Tiptronic transmission. Further, the fire services can identify the make, model, and year of the vehicle in the Luton fire, yet we still don't know who owned it or was driving it at the time, so we can't stalk him.

You have forgotten that I—not you—am the expert in how to write reports for public consumption that were developed according to information provided in confidence, under privilege, or under restriction. No one knows who you are or where exactly you live. I'm telling you that revealing the make, model, and year of your car does not subject you to undue personal risk. No one is asking for further information that would identify the individual vehicle, and therefore you. You're being asked for generic information about the model.

I have told you exactly what type of car I have. Full stop.

Lie.

We asked for the make, model, and year. You've told us the model year is 2023. You've told us it's of Japanese make. But you still haven't told us the make and model. There is no concept of reality in which you have identified "exactly what type of car" you're talking about.

You heard. I informed you I was not giving you my personal information. Respect people's boundaries. I have told you all you need to know for information purposes.

No.

Identifying your vehicle type is not personal information. Your fear of being stalked as a result is irrational.

You have not told us what we need to know for information purposes. You have purported that you drive a hybrid. Yet your description of how you operate that hybrid is unlike anything else known, and contrary to the engineering principles that pertain to hybrids. Thus your claim cannot be take as trivially or self-evidently true. It requires further investigation before it can be believed. Your unwillingness to provide the necessary information is strong evidence you do do not want that investigation to happen. From that we can reasonably infer that you believe the investigation would produce information that would be detrimental to your claim. Therefore it's reasonable to presume your claim is false.

Your boundaries are irrelevant. When you invoked your personal experience to support your claim, you made that experience discoverable. Insinuating just enough "personal information" to support your argument but not enough to allow others to verify it while preserving your anonymity is dishonest, and typical of your other dishonest patterns of argumentation.

All the actual evidence in the Luton fire—and it is strong evidence—supports a finding that the initial vehicle was a diesel powered vehicle and not any sort of EV or hybrid. Contrary to all this evidence, you propose that the vehicle was nevertheless a hybrid. To answer the contravening evidence, you propose that the owner (and presumably driver) was utterly unaware that he was driving a hybrid. (You're completely unable to answer how the fire services allegedly misidentified the powerplant, but we'll save that for another day.)

Your hypothesis regarding the driver is absurd on its face. But to try to blunt some of that absurdity, you've said that obliviously driving a hybrid must be accepted as possible because you do it. You claim you drive a hybrid, that driving it is indistinguishable from driving an ICE-powered car, and that it has a clutch and manual gearbox that so many of us (including me) love to drive. You don't state it explicitly, but implied in your argument is that such a car would have a lithium ion battery capable of burning down a car park.

But to people who know hybrids, no such car exists. That is, either you're making it up, or your description of what it is and/or how it works is inaccurate or incomplete. In any case, you don't get to expect your critics just to take your word for it. Once again your argument rests upon your unverifiable claims to personal authority. If you don't like people asking you about your personal experience, stop basing your arguments on it.

Ironically, you can completely divorce your argument from personal experience by giving us the make, model, and year of the car you're talking about. That lets us evaluate your claim based on what we can discover about the car on our own, rather than having you chase you constantly around Grievance Grove and Evasion Alley. Since you refuse to give us the information required to evaluate your claim, and it faces substantial countervaling evidence, we have to dismiss it.

But there's a lingering issue about why you would stoop to conjuring up magical hybrid designs. It's not to actually solve better the Luton fire's initial cause. That's been done. The evidence is in, and it's conclusive. It's not because you're "curious" or "just asking questions." Inventing fantasy cars isn't about getting new information from the scenario; it's about injecting questionable information into the scenario.

So why are you coming up with patently absurd lines of reasoning to keep alive the idea that it's still somehow a hybrid? I'm certain it's because you can't let go of the smoke-and-flame argument. You want it to still somehow be an operative claim, some purported anomaly that you were clever enough to spot and which hasn't been specifically addressed by the experts. There's no actual controversy, since the "anomaly" exists only in your uninformed imagination. But you can't let it go. It's still always all about you, not what really caused the fire.
 
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Identifying your vehicle type is not personal information. Your fear of being stalked as a result is irrational.

Just to add to this:
The same reservations Vixen states for being unwilling to reveal the exact make, model and year of her car also apply to the owner of the car that started the fire. I would imagine that the driver of that car, having- albeit unintentionally- caused untold damage, both to the car park and goodness knows how many cars in it- might be justifiably concerned about having their identity revealed. Vixen, however, has demanded for months to have this information revealed to the public, and expressed (to my recollection) no qualms whatsoever about the consequences of that for the driver of the DIESEL car that caught fire.
To an outside observer, that looks a lot like double standards.
 
Just to add to this:
The same reservations Vixen states for being unwilling to reveal the exact make, model and year of her car also apply to the owner of the car that started the fire. I would imagine that the driver of that car, having- albeit unintentionally- caused untold damage, both to the car park and goodness knows how many cars in it- might be justifiably concerned about having their identity revealed. Vixen, however, has demanded for months to have this information revealed to the public, and expressed (to my recollection) no qualms whatsoever about the consequences of that for the driver of the DIESEL car that caught fire.
To an outside observer, that looks a lot like double standards.

In Vixen's case it's a feeble excuse to avoid the embarrassment of having, finally, to admit that her car is not a hybrid.
 
LKA?
<edit> Ah! Lane Keeping Assistance. 2nd page of Google results. Not the ladies' kennel association or the Landeskriminalamt etc.

You assume that, but due to the need to transport dogs as a major part of my work my car (03 plate Toyota Rab 4 2ltr petrol 4wd) is equipped with a full time synchromesh Ladies Kennel Association on the transfer box & rear axel. Admittedly I had to have it fitted at an illegal back street garage!
 
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Yes, but do they have an electrical supply?

I believe there are things called wires that allow the electricity to flow from the battery to all the various motors and sundry other electrical components - both front and back.

Also, I'm led to believe that, with the fuel tank at the rear and the engine at the front, there is an arrangement pipes that takes the fuel from the one place to the other. This strikes me as extraordinarily dangerous, especially if one of the pipes becomes detached, allowing fuel to spray in to the aforementioned electrical devices.
 
But why is it worded, 'it is believed'? Wasn't one of the points of the investigation to explain exactly what happened, not what was believed to have happened by a boffin whilst the fire was still burning? Even then if it is a best educated guess, should there not be some kind of time line of how it spread despite two fire extinguishers emptied over it - and it wasn't parked next to any other car ATT - explaining why the flames and smoke looked the way they did? If they do not know then it should say so.

I know this will surprise you but real life isn't a police procedural TV drama. Sometimes you get, "it is believed" because that's where the evidence points and you don't have every fact. What we can be sure of is the no one investigating this fire mistook a diesel for a hybrid or EV of any type. That we can take to the bank because we know that the fire started in a vehicle that wasn't a hybrid. Real life is under no obligation to accommodate your silly little detective hobby. That you're not satisfied with that answer counts for nothing.
 
In Vixen's case it's a feeble excuse to avoid the embarrassment of having, finally, to admit that her car is not a hybrid.

We have a winner.

Vixen couldn't even admit to having got a quote from Alice in Wonderland wrong.
 
But why is it worded, 'it is believed'?

Because the author is being honest about the state of evidence as regards the ignition event.

Wasn't one of the points of the investigation to explain exactly what happened, not what was believed to have happened by a boffin whilst the fire was still burning?

It may surprise you that the picture of evidence doesn't always allow you to draw a firm conclusion on every point of interest such as what exactly sparked the fire. Also I note that you seem to be conflating the "beliefs" expressed in the first press event over the fuel type of the vehicle with the "beliefs" forming the limit of understanding in the final report about the likely electrical ignition event.

Even then if it is a best educated guess, should there not be some kind of time line of how it spread despite two fire extinguishers emptied over it...

No. The fire propagation sequence isn't anomalous no matter how much your ignorant handwaving to the contrary may suggest. Your amateur list of interesting questions isn't the same thing that real investigators are thinking about.

...explaining why the flames and smoke looked the way they did?

There is nothing remarkable or anomalous about the appearance of the smoke and flames, no matter how much your armchair image "analysis" might tell you.

If they do not know then it should say so.

No. A real investigation is not obliged to entertain, address, or explain naive questions raised by misinformed, unqualified individuals for their personal reasons. You are not relevant, important, or in charge.
 
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What was wrong with the car.

Okay, look, there's no nice way to say this. You're not the kind of tax payer anyone in government is going to worry about. The nice people you sent your little request for information to are well acquainted with your type. They dispensed with you. After they dispensed with you that went on to things that matter. Nothing will change because of you. No investigations will be reopened. No inquiries will be launched that otherwise would not have been. The House of Lords won't be discussing hybrids because of you. Nothing will happen. Your lack of satisfaction means and counts for nothing.

So yes, express your concerns. Your dissatisfaction is a sacrifice the ubiquitous "they" are willing to make. In fact, most of "them" won't even know you exist.
 

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