Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire IV

Foster Zygote said:
He's not talking about chiming or beeping sounds intended to alert the driver that certain systems are now active, or remind passengers to fasten their seatbelts. He's not talking about the fans for the environmental system, or the stereo. He's talking about the fact that when you activate a hybrid, unless it's a Formula 1 car, the engine doesn't start. Every hybrid I've ever driven or ridden in has used the electric motor for initial movement. The ICE engine doesn't start until a certain power demand is made.

Can you please justify your above opinion by stating what sound you think a hybrid produces when you start it?
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As long as the six-speaker sound system and GPS navigator works, I tend to ignore all the other stuff. The warning lights on the wing mirrors are very useful though, as it can be difficult to estimate the speed of something coming up behind you when changing lanes in a busy motorway.

I did actually notice today it was quite silent. What I was experiencing was vibrations rather than noise.

But when lithium batteries were in their introductory stage, the dashboards weren't modified, it was likely just seen as another car component and registered as diesel or petrol.

As JLR did launch Range Rover Sport in 2013 to 2014 it struck me that this Luton guy might have had an early prototype without it being officially labelled as having such a feature. That's all.
 
Vixen said:
I do not have a Toyota.
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Just before you posted that I was reading that full hybrids are always automatic transmission for their ICE functioning. Is that correct? It seems to make sense, as how could the car switch between power options with a manual gearbox?

If so, why does your car have a clutch?

p.s. what's the make, model and year of your car?
 
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Jack by the hedge said:
It's a frankly astonishing oversight that that the report did not simply include the owner's manual for a 2014 Range Rover Sport HEV in an appendix, so that the reader could satisfy themselves as to whether there was any possibility that someone could own and use this car yet remain blithely unaware that it was a hybrid.

It's surely obvious that a thorough report would include detailed documentation of car models which were not the type which caused the fire but rumoured to have been by social media conspiracists. How else are we to be satisfied the car was a diesel? Simply take investigators word for it that they had investigated it? Madness!

It's terribly slapdash of them not to include full documentation of irrelevant cars and my confidence and trust are quite shaken.
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I know you are being sarcastic but actually it would be very useful for the Fire Brigade to contact JLR to receive the powertrain diagram of this particular vehicle.
 
Vixen said:
As long as the six-speaker sound system and GPS navigator works, I tend to ignore all the other stuff.
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Good for you. And irrelevant. Your claim is that the initial vehicle in the Luton fire could still have been a hybrid, but that this fact escaped not only its owner but the investigators. This is simply not credible.

But when lithium batteries were in their introductory stage, the dashboards weren't modified, it was likely just seen as another car component and registered as diesel or petrol.
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"Because I say so, and I need it to be true to keep believing I'm clever in contrast to the evidence."

As JLR did launch Range Rover Sport in 2013 to 2014 it struck me that this Luton guy might have had an early prototype without it being officially labelled as having such a feature. That's all.
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No. You're still proposing a magical vehicle whose existence you cannot prove and whose essential characteristics eluded those who are expert at identifying them. And the only reason you're doing this is to pretend you're still somehow right despite literally all evidence to the contrary.
 
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Vixen said:
I know you are being sarcastic but actually it would be very useful for the Fire Brigade to contact JLR to receive the powertrain diagram of this particular vehicle.
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No, inspectors do not need this information in order to distinguish a hybrid from a pure ICE.

No, you are not qualified to determine how forensic engineering investigations should be undertaken.
 
Vixen said:
But as there is no law against taxpayers asking questions as to how their taxes are used in public bodies that are taxpayer-injected, I will continue to ask questions where I see fit.
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You are not asking questions. You proceed from the assumption that you know all the answers. And from that position, you have accused these investigators of either incompetence or lying. That you refuse to take responsibility for the implications of your accusations does not mean you aren't making them.

If you feel so strongly that people must not make inquiries when there is an incident of this sort...
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Straw man. Since you are patently incompetent in the fields that pertain to this incident and its investigation, you do not get to proceed from the assumption that your questions are reasonable, or—in your case—at all grounded in reality.

In the meantime it is a free country and us Brit busybodies will carry on expecting public servants to be accountable to us.
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Public servants are accountable to the public. They are not accountable to individual ignorant busybodies.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Compare and contrast indeed. The Luton report states clearly that the car which started the fire was diesel-powered and not any kind of EV. The Liverpool report says the car which caught fire there was originally petrol powered but its fuel system had been modified, yet it does not explain in what way.

But it's the Luton report you regard with suspicious for some reason. (The obvious reason being an increasingly desperate need to find a way to pretend not to have been wrong.)
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As I understand it, the Liverpool Range Rover was modified with a night heater.

I already said I accept what the report says about the vehicle type. As you know the report only came out circa 9 October 2024. The last update was 11 Oct 2023, as spelt out in the report, and as I said all along.

What it hasn't done is spell out in detail exactly how this 'electrical fault in the engine bay' progressed. ISTM they are simply repeating what the AA guy said 11 Oct 2023 as to that being the 'likely cause'. But the report was supposed to investigate the cause and it seems thy have just quoted the AA guy's educated guess.

I am not sure why people find it upsetting that people want to know.
 
GlennB said:
Just before you posted that I was reading that full hybrids are always automatic transmission for their ICE functioning. Is that correct? It seems to make sense, as how could the car switch between power options with a manual gearbox?

If so, why does your car have a clutch?

p.s. what's the make, model and year of your car?
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I prefer a manual gear as I like to be in full control as IMV driving is more fun when using one's own skills.

It is not correct that 'all hybrids are automatic'.
 
Vixen said:
I prefer a manual gear as I like to be in full control as IMV driving is more fun when using one's own skills.

It is not correct that 'all hybrids are automatic'.
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You have a manual hybrid?

What is the make, model, and year of your vehicle?
 
Vixen said:
Well, one good thing from this thread is, I now carry a fire blanket in the passenger car door and a small hammer in case the door gets locked in
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A hammer isn't the best tool for smashing a car window, you would be better off with something sharp.
there are several special pointed hammers for breaking car windows. A spring loaded 'automatic' centre punch used for marking metal is also a very good option.
 
Vixen said:
As I said from the start, it is my opinion that the nature of the fire looks to me to be a lithium one. Given that some early 2014 Range Rover Sport diesel did have a lithium battery, which was on the passenger side (UK), I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a hybrid without the owner realising it, especially if bought secondhand.

People seem not to know the difference between opinion and fact. It was always my OPINION, I never claimed it was a fact.

Whilst I'm here re Rolfe claiming 'statistics', it is irrelevant here whether 'most car fires are...[whatever]...', as here we are dealing with just one vehicle, and thus probability doesn't come into it.
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Vixen said:
As I understand it, the Liverpool Range Rover was modified with a night heater.

I already said I accept what the report says about the vehicle type. As you know the report only came out circa 9 October 2024. The last update was 11 Oct 2023, as spelt out in the report, and as I said all along.

What it hasn't done is spell out in detail exactly how this 'electrical fault in the engine bay' progressed. ISTM they are simply repeating what the AA guy said 11 Oct 2023 as to that being the 'likely cause'. But the report was supposed to investigate the cause and it seems thy have just quoted the AA guy's educated guess.

I am not sure why people find it upsetting that people want to know.
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So you accept now that the fire started in a diesel car? Not an EV or hybrid of any sort?
 
Vixen said:
I try not to give out unnecessary personal information on social media.
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This is not personal information. I drive a black 2015 Audi A3 2.0 L turbo with a Tiptronic transmission. Can you identify me from that information?

You claim the initial vehicle in the Luton fire could still have been a hybrid and that the owner was entirely unaware of it. This is patently absurd. Nevertheless you say it is reasonable because you drive a hybrid whose driving experience is indistinguishable from a pure ICE. This is not credible except in certain extremely narrow cases. In order to evaluate it according to the evidence, however, we will need to know the make and model so that we can draw our own conclusions.

The only non-Toyota Japanese auto manufacturer that made a manual-transmission hybrid is Honda, and they quit making it in 2005. The 2023 Civi SI offered a sort of clutch that would connect the ICE directly to the drive train, but this absolutely does not qualify as a driving experience indistinguishable from an ICE.

You've seen how badly I was bullied over qualifications.
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Because you lied about them. We think you're also lying about your car.
 
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