Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire IV

[GlennB]

Is this some sort of performance art we're witnessing? It's highly entertaining.

An insatiable desire for attention?

 

[zooterkin]

Not only didn't the owner know it was a hybrid, it escaped the attention of the fire investigators.

The fire investigators who took the time to issue explicit statements saying that the car was neither an EV nor a hybrid of any type, and was a diesel-engined car. There is no question of them overlooking any battery power in the car. If it wasn't a diesel, as Vixen seems to attempting to maintain, then the Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service has been lying to the public from day one, and continues to do so in the official report.

 

[Steve]

The fire investigators who took the time to issue explicit statements saying that the car was neither an EV nor a hybrid of any type, and was a diesel-engined car. There is no question of them overlooking any battery power in the car. If it wasn't a diesel, as Vixen seems to attempting to maintain, then the Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service has been lying to the public from day one, and continues to do so in the official report.

This is exactly where Vixen is now.

 

[zooterkin]

This is exactly where Vixen is now.

Though for some reason she shies away from saying so explicitly.

 

[JayUtah]

Is that what it is about for you?

No, that's what it is about for you. Despite every available fact being contrary to your beliefs and claims, you're still desperately casting about trying to find some way in which you can pretend you're still right. The rest of us are still talking about how stuff actually works.

So you think it is OK to attack people on the grounds of their personal characteristics?

I'm attacking the claims of someone who clearly doesn't know what she's talking about, isn't terribly honest, but desperately wants to be accepted as the smartest turkey in the barnyard. You're not being treated inappropriately. If you don't like having your personal authority examined, don't make it the basis of your argument. If you consider lying to be a personal characteristic, then so be it. I don't consider it immune from rational criticism.

You need to learn the difference between opinion and fact.

 

[JayUtah]

As I said from the start, it is my opinion that the nature of the fire looks to me to be a lithium one.

It has been explained from the start why that opinion is irrelevant and almost certainly wrong.

Given that some early 2014 Range Rover Sport diesel did have a lithium battery, which was on the passenger side (UK), I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a hybrid without the owner realising it, especially if bought secondhand.

Not credible given the evidence.

At this point you're either accusing the fire services of being incompetent or of being liars. There is no other way to reconcile your hypothesis here with their behavior.

People seem not to know the difference between opinion and fact. It was always my OPINION, I never claimed it was a fact.

But you want that opinion to be probative over and above better established fact. This is how we know it's about you being the smartest one in the room and not about actually studying the incident. I don't recall the report mentioning anything about flame colors, so there's nothing along those lines for you to rebut. But you keep bringing it up because it's your hypothesis, the product of your allegedly superior knowledge and powers of observation, not because it does a better job of explaining the observed facts. You want credit for being oh-so-clever despite how irrelevant and wrong you are.

 

[malbui]

Not only didn't the owner know it was a hybrid, it escaped the attention of the fire investigators.

You poor sweet innocent thing. Quite obviously a crack cleanup squad sent by MI5/Mossad/Tata/Martians got to the site of the fire and, before the fire investigators intervened, managed to isolate the still smoking carcass of the car, strip out all the hybrid modifications including the display panels, replace any necessary diesel components, burn them to match the damage to the rest of the car, and get away either without being seen or with the complicity of site security.

Think about it. It's the only plausible explanation.

 

[JayUtah]

Perhaps I missed it but can you quote me where in the report it analyses how the engine became irrevocably unextinguishable...

In effect, the report is more about the operations, what they did step by step but no real analysis of the scientific causes that caused the ceilings to collapse, for example.

A report is not deficient simply because it fails to specifically address the things about which you ignorantly and speculatively waved your hands for so long. You have an inflated sense of your own importance.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Perhaps I missed it but can you quote me where in the report it analyses how the engine became irrevocably unextinguishable

How the what did what? Did you mean how the fire started? Or do you mean why the driver couldn't put it out? Do you suppose that is unusual? Car fires are really quite common. They have several common causes. Once they take hold they can often be impossible to put out with a regular extinguisher. Once the car is burnt out, it's not always clear what the initial cause was. None of that is mysterious, nor suspicious.

You might take a step back, to consider that you're now building a fantasy where the driver did not realise his car was a hybrid and, presumably, the model name was wrongly recorded in the car's documentation. All of this to protect your seemingly pathological inability to change your mind. Think about that for a moment.

 

[Foster Zygote]

How credible is it that someone could drive a vehicle without noticing that it was a hybrid rather than a plain diesel?

About as credible as Vixen's scientific credentials.

Aside from the obvious instrument panel displays already mentioned, you'd think the driver would have noticed when the car backed out of parking spaces in silence.

 

[Craig4]

And doesn't the engine noise differ? I don't drive, but I've noticed that some of the buses I travel on don't always produce the expected sounds. For example, bus stops at bus stop, diesel engine noises die away, then bus pulls away without any increase in diesel engine noise. I'd assumed that these are hybrids.

Yes. When you turn on a hybrid, you don't hear anything.

 

[JayUtah]

...and lamp-posts. And trees. And if you stand still long enough, with some dogs, your leg isn't safe...

Maybe this is why our hydrants are still mostly above ground. And in my city, coincidentally painted yellow.

Yes. When you turn on a hybrid, you don't hear anything.

Plot twist: the driver was deaf. Yes, I know the fire services conversed with him over the phone, but we know what inveterate liars they are.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Yes. When you turn on a hybrid, you don't hear anything.

I've not driven one, but presumably you just turn them on as the ICE engine is managed depending on whether it or motors are required, rather than having a separate engine start button or position on the ignition switch?

 

[welshdean]

I believe Vixen, that you drive a Toyota, a fairly recent one at that - a Yaris perhaps?
If so, you will be well aware that the hybrids make a peculiar, metallic noise when pulling away gently and impossibly fast (for a diesel) when 'putting your foot down' from a standing start. You'd have also noted that the display shows whether you are driving on battery, ICE or regenerative breaking.
It is preposterous to even think that this wouldn't be noticed by anyone sat in the drivers seat or even as a passenger.
And YOU know this, from first-hand experience.

 

[jimbob]

I've not driven one, but presumably you just turn them on as the ICE engine is managed depending on whether it or motors are required, rather than having a separate engine start button or position on the ignition switch?

There are quite a few good reasons for having the electric motor being the one for low speeds especially from a standstill or in stop start traffic.

You'd still need to turn an electric motor if using the internal combustion engine (the starter motor).

As an aside, do hybrids use starter motors or do they rely on the drive motor(s) instead?

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Just when you thought something couldn't get any sillier, oh yes, it does...

 

[JayUtah]

Just when you thought something couldn't get any sillier, oh yes, it does...

And for no helpful purpose. There are no outstanding legitimate observations, corollaries, or anomalies that need to be addressed. It's a straightforward open-and-shut case, albeit an unfortunate one for Luton and for those who lost their property or were injured.

The color of the smoke and flames? Not anomalous. But Vixen desperately needs validation for her belief that they are, if only for some official to address and refute it and thereby reinforce for her how clever she to have noticed an important point. Maybe the car really did have a large lithium ion battery hidden somewhere completely outside the experience of its owner and completely impervious to inspection from experts. It just has to be possible, so that Vixen can maybe eventually somehow crow about how she was right all along. It can't possibly be that Vixen's expectations of smoke and flame are so naive as to not be worth serious attention.

The propagation of the fire? Not anomalous. But Vixen desperately needs validation of her belief that it is, if only a nod from the experts that this was something she was clever enough to notice and thus requires their laborious attention to explain. Maybe the fire really did propagate suspiciously fast, and maybe this was because there really was a secret lithium ion battery. It just has to be, so that Vixen can feel clever about how the fire is suspicious—and the experts suspiciously omitted it from their report. It can't possibly be because Vixen's expectations of about fire propagation are laughably naive and simplistic and thus not worth serious attention.

The collapse of the structure? Not anomalous. But Vixen desperately needs validation of her belief that it is, if only a nod from the experts that her structural analysis was so very astute and needs laborious attention to explain away. Maybe the structure really did collapse too easily and quickly, and maybe that's because there was a suspiciously intense fire that she can say is probative of a lithium ion battery fire—and maybe the report ignored it because they can't explain it. It can't possibly be because the collapse sequence was unremarkable and Vixen's pretense to expertise needs no serious attention.

None of Vixen's post-report desperation is seeking to address any actual outstanding anomaly. They address things she insists must be anomalies on no better authority than her uninformed, thoroughly-debunked opinion peppered with a lie here and there. Trying to rebrand tacitly-premised assertions of fact as mere "opinions" doesn't mask her evident desire that they still be taken seriously—if not as evidence of her correctness then at least as evidence of her cleverness. She's okay with being corrected; that's a form of validation—if the nominal experts think her points are astute enough to be specifically addressed and refuted, then that's flattering. What Vixen can't stand is to be ignored. "Maybe the car was still a hybrid and no one knew it," is just the most recently and comically absurd attempt to insist that her beliefs are still on par with if not better than the deliberate findings of the experts and that she's still the smartest person in the room for noticing all these "anomalies" that the experts either missed or ominously can't or won't explain.

And all of Vixen's, "I would have liked to see..." are simply manifestations of that same "I know best" mentality. She evidently can't read this report through any lens beyond her own self-importance. Her post-report rhetoric is not being driven by correcting flaws in the report or noting legitimate omissions or defects. It's still about one person trying to buttress delusions of grandeur in the face of increasingly contravening fact.

 

[Craig4]

I've not driven one, but presumably you just turn them on as the ICE engine is managed depending on whether it or motors are required, rather than having a separate engine start button or position on the ignition switch?

Yeah, it turns on like any other car. There's a computer that manages the engine. You don't switch between the two on most. I know some have an option to switch to EV after it's on but I don't think that's very common.

 

[Craig4]

Maybe this is why our hydrants are still mostly above ground. And in my city, coincidentally painted yellow.



Plot twist: the driver was deaf. Yes, I know the fire services conversed with him over the phone, but we know what inveterate liars they are.

The fire service or deaf people?

 

[P.J. Denyer]

There are quite a few good reasons for having the electric motor being the one for low speeds especially from a standstill or in stop start traffic.

You'd still need to turn an electric motor if using the internal combustion engine (the starter motor).

As an aside, do hybrids use starter motors or do they rely on the drive motor(s) instead?

Yes, I get that, but what I'm asking is do you manually start the engine in a hybrid? I assume you don't. Getting in the car and pulling away without specifically starting the engine via the ignition key or a start button would be a difference between an ICE vehicle and a hybrid or EV that no-one is going to miss.