The Gospel

[Donks]

Well as a New Testament believer I still have much to learn about theology but I do understand the Bible and it has real life applications to me. I can ask anything I need of God and then look it up in scripture. I accept the Bible as the inspired word of God which was written by people filled with the Holy Spirit. These are what I call spiritual insights that I try to apply each day to my own life.
Like when I first started reading scripture I would use my ready reference that would cover a topic I wanted to know about. When I look it up the scripture pertaining to a particular question, I see what God says about it and then I put it into action in my own life. It's not only a love letter to me, but God gives me the instructions I need to base my own morals and principles in which I choose to live by. I take God's word by faith, but I know God's word is alive and active in me so it does have applicable meaning to each and every persons life.
Like to interpretation of do unto others as you would want others to do to you. If I want to be respected, then I must respect others. If I want others to love me unconditionally, then I must love them unconditionally. These are just a couple of examples but I do believe we reap what we sow!

I don't see how this answers my question. I asked you to explain this line:

If it doesn't stand up to what scripture says I will call it a lie.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but since you're answer was so vague, I'll be more direct. Do you mean that if a different religious belief does not fit with the Bible then it's a lie?

 

[Tricky]

I have inquired much on the theories of spirituality in many other cultures including their religions, I just see where some of it is way off. If it doesn't stand up to what scripture says I will call it a lie.

Well that's just prejudiced. You accept your scripture. They accept theirs. Calling their sacred scripture a lie does nothing to lead to understanding. It just shows how incapable of seeing the other point of view you are.

This does not mean I don't try to understand why they believe those teachings. I care very much about people and the condition of peoples hearts and minds. But when people are following what I call doctrine of demons, I will say something about it!

Then you are not trying to understand. You are fitting their beliefs to your template. You are calling their gods demons. How can you possible call that "understanding"?

Jesus warned us about all the deceptions in this world in these the latter times. He's coming back like he said and I just pray people will look for him while he can be found. Once judgement falls on this earth many will mourn that they denied their creator and I hate to think of a single soul being lost!

And if you are wrong, then it is your soul that will be lost. But you seem to be incapable of conceiving of that possibility. You are 100% convinced of your own rightness. Well guess what. So are they. The only way you can ever understand them is by accepting the possibility that they may be right, and I am 99% certain that you are unable to do that. (But not 100% )

 

[kurious_kathy]

None of us are rightous. It's christ in us that makes us become more Christlike. I cannot see any other absolute truth but what is written in the word of God. Everything else is questionable to me, except God's word. Does this mean I understand everything in it completely. No , it would take more than one lifetime to learn all there is to know about God. I just am setting my sights on heaven where one day as one who believes in the redeeming blood of Christ, I will one day be spending eternity with my creator and have all the time in the world to grow in wisdom and understanding.
I know many think me closed minded by not talking more with others about their religions, but I really can't say what they believe is true. I know in my heart the only way to the Father is through the son. God is God and we can't have him on our own terms. We must line up with his will and his plan to have that inner peace and the understanding he shares with us.
It's one way or no way! Scripture is clear on this point!

 

[Donks]

None of us are rightous. It's christ in us that makes us become more Christlike. I cannot see any other absolute truth but what is written in the word of God. Everything else is questionable to me, except God's word. Does this mean I understand everything in it completely. No , it would take more than one lifetime to learn all there is to know about God. I just am setting my sights on heaven where one day as one who believes in the redeeming blood of Christ, I will one day be spending eternity with my creator and have all the time in the world to grow in wisdom and understanding.
I know many think me closed minded by not talking more with others about their religions, but I really can't say what they believe is true. I know in my heart the only way to the Father is through the son. God is God and we can't have him on our own terms. We must line up with his will and his plan to have that inner peace and the understanding he shares with us.
It's one way or no way! Scripture is clear on this point!

So when you say "plead with people to not be so skeptical" what you really mean is "forget about being open minded, be as close minded as you like, just believe what I believe"?

 

[kurious_kathy]

I don't see how this answers my question. I asked you to explain this line:

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but since you're answer was so vague, I'll be more direct. Do you mean that if a different religious belief does not fit with the Bible then it's a lie?

I have definate opinions on many differnt religions and spiritual beliefs. Much of what's out there is what I consider false teachings made up by false prophets like Mohammad, and Joseph Smith for starters.
Yes, I believe those guys were deceived by evil spirits and in my opinion and are responsible for getting others to follow those beliefs. So if someone says that's what they want to believe, I would just pray that God would soften their heart and open their eyes. I have heard God has been using dreams with the Muslim people to help open their eyes up to the one true God.
Allah is not Jesus, and Jesus is the truth! His sheep know his voice!!

 

[Donks]

I have definate opinions on many differnt religions and spiritual beliefs.

Yes, you seem to think they are all false except for your own brand. I agree with you for the most part, except tat I think your own brand is false as well.

 

[Spidey13]

I have definate opinions on many differnt religions and spiritual beliefs. Much of what's out there is what I consider false teachings made up by false prophets like Mohammad, and Joseph Smith for starters.
Yes, I believe those guys were deceived by evil spirits and in my opinion and are responsible for getting others to follow those beliefs. So if someone says that's what they want to believe, I would just pray that God would soften their heart and open their eyes. I have heard God has been using dreams with the Muslim people to help open their eyes up to the one true God.
Allah is not Jesus, and Jesus is the truth! His sheep know his voice!!

kathy, let's try this. Could you please give one bit of verifiable evidence that proves the Bible correct and proves Joseph Smith and Mohammed wrong? And not just because you "believe." Just one thing that proves you're right.

Also, I'm intrigued by your statement, "I would just pray that God would soften their heart and open their eyes." So, what you're saying is, if they don't convert to your brand of Christianity, it's because God didn't open their eyes, therefore it's God's fault and not theirs. So, God's just picking who to save and who he sends to hell. Nice god you got there.

 

[kurious_kathy]

Yes, you seem to think they are all false except for your own brand. I agree with you for the most part, except tat I think your own brand is false as well.

I know you are skeptical about christianity, but might I ask you to read a couple of these articles by Hank who I think are very informative on why people should consider Chrisitanity.
http://www.equip.org/free/CP0211.htm http://www.equip.org/free/CP0206.htm

I would only like to put the emphasis on this point as well that Chrisitianity is more about having a relationship with God than based solely on a religious point of view. I myself have experienced the power of God in my own life and I say I have only experienced Him by believing in Christ. You can scrutinize me all you want but I know what it is to feel his presence in my life. I may have lots to learn about theology, but I don't question my belief in the one true God who we connect with through Christ. So many people from so many different backrounds have come to faith in Christ. How do you explain that?

 

[Spidey13]

So many people from so many different backrounds have come to faith in Christ. How do you explain that?

The same way so many people from so many different backgrounds have come to faith in every other religion.

 

[Donks]

I know you are skeptical about christianity, but might I ask you to read a couple of these articles by Hank who I think are very informative on why people should consider Chrisitanity.
http://www.equip.org/free/CP0211.htm http://www.equip.org/free/CP0206.htm

How nice, I've got my own Hank related article for you to consider, here.

I would only like to put the emphasis on this point as well that Chrisitianity is more about having a relationship with God than based solely on a religious point of view. I myself have experienced the power of God in my own life and I say I have only experienced Him by believing in Christ. You can scrutinize me all you want but I know what it is to feel his presence in my life. I may have lots to learn about theology, but I don't question my belief in the one true God who we connect with through Christ. So many people from so many different backrounds have come to faith in Christ. How do you explain that?

Argument from popularity, huh? How do you explain the millions of muslims? Or of Hindus? Or of Buddhists?

 

[Jon.]

So many people from so many different backrounds have come to faith in Christ. How do you explain that?

The same way so many people from so many different backgrounds have come to faith in every other religion.

Or, more to the point perhaps, the way that so many people from so many different backgrounds have come to rely on what can be proved by evidence and rejected religious faiths of all stripes.

 

[Ryokan]

I know you are skeptical about christianity, but might I ask you to read a couple of these articles by Hank who I think are very informative on why people should consider Chrisitanity.

Hmm, will we need to kiss Hank's ass?

 

[UrsulaV]

I have inquired much on the theories of spirituality in many other cultures including their religions, I just see where some of it is way off. If it doesn't stand up to what scripture says I will call it a lie.

So at no point, ever, are you ever willing to consider that someone else may be right in their beliefs, and you may be wrong?

And yet, you ask us here to do that very thing, and consider that you might be right, and we might be wrong?

Tell me, now, Kathy, why should we do this for you when you have stated repeatedly that you're not willing to do the same thing? Why should we even consider for a heartbeat that you might be right when you will not consider that you might be wrong?

Why are you asking us to do something that you are unwilling, or unable, or too cowardly, or too closed-minded, to do yourself? Why should we be held to a standard of open-mindedness that you are unable or unwilling to adhere to yourself?

 

[Spidey13]

http://www.equip.org/free/CP0211.htm http://www.equip.org/free/CP0206.htm

I must thank you, kathy, for linking to such short articles. I rarely read links that are long. I just don't have the patience most of the time. So, I commend you for that.

From the articles:

Regarding these questions, Christianity towers above the religions of the world. For instance, while every religion would have man try to reach up to God, Christianity says that it’s God who reached down to man — that only through God’s grace and mercy, and never by mere human effort, can we ever hope to obtain God’s favor.

Yes my friend, Christianity’s unique distinctions are very good reasons to embrace it.

So, it appears Mr. Hanengraff's main reason to believe Christianity is the true religion is the fact that it's different from other religions. So, different = right. Do you really see this as a good reason to believe Christianity above all other religions? If so, you should probably apply this to other areas of life.

Example: Homosexuality = different = right

Sound good to you?

 

[kurious_kathy]

So at no point, ever, are you ever willing to consider that someone else may be right in their beliefs, and you may be wrong?

And yet, you ask us here to do that very thing, and consider that you might be right, and we might be wrong?

Tell me, now, Kathy, why should we do this for you when you have stated repeatedly that you're not willing to do the same thing? Why should we even consider for a heartbeat that you might be right when you will not consider that you might be wrong?

Why are you asking us to do something that you are unwilling, or unable, or too cowardly, or too closed-minded, to do yourself? Why should we be held to a standard of open-mindedness that you are unable or unwilling to adhere to yourself?

Actually Ursula I myself have been very open in the past with other peoples belief in spirituality/or religions. It's because I had no boundaries in my own life that I felt very deceived and misled in the past. Remember I came out of taking a more pantheistic point of view in the past. If you think I am too close minded now when I express what I believe, I'm sorry about that.
I think of it as now I have a healthy boundary with my spiritual beliefs!

 

[UrsulaV]

Actually Ursula I myself have been very open in the past with other peoples belief in spirituality/or religions. It's because I had no boundaries in my own life that I felt very deceived and misled in the past. Remember I came out of taking a more pantheistic point of view in the past. If you think I am too close minded now when I express what I believe, I'm sorry about that.
I think of it as now I have a healthy boundary with my spiritual beliefs!

That's nice for you. Still, it doesn't address my statement--if you're not willing to accept that a differing viewpoint might be right, and yours wrong, why do you ask us to do so? Why are you asking strangers to do something that you are currently completely unwilling to do yourself?

Don't you find it a smidge hypocritical that even though you are totally unwilling to consider that your current belief in scripture may be wrong, you are asking people to consider that their current beliefs may be wrong?

That you may once have been open to other beliefs doesn't matter one way or the other--the important point is that AT THIS MOMENT you will not consider that your belief may be wrong, and yet you demand that others consider their equally firm beliefs to do so.

What possible reason do we have to extend you this courtesy, when you refuse to extend it yourself?

 

[Roadtoad]

And once more, Kathy starts preaching. Oh, wait, no, she says she's not preaching. She's sharing, so everything's cool, right?

I'm waiting for someone to explain to me how God's purpose was served by the death of a two year old child. I'm waiting for someone to tell me how merciful God is should I learn my father is in Hell. I'm waiting for someone to show me that God's love is so great, they can't help but be moved to help others before they start stomping around the community telling how much God loves them.

I have a feeling I'm going to be waiting a while.

In the meantime, Kathy, why don't you just leave? Just for the giggles.

 

[Spidey13]

I think of it as now I have a healthy boundary with my spiritual beliefs!

Ooh, "healthy boundary." I think that's my new favorite synonym for "closed mind." Of course, you've accused everyone else here of having a closed mind, and now you admit to having one yourself. Can you say "hypocrite?" I knew you could.

 

[UrsulaV]

To put it another way, Kathy, you and I both have a belief about scripture.

You think it's the literal word of God and a blueprint to live your life by.

I think it's a mishmash of mythology, history, tradition, storytelling, translated and retranslated by regular people, often with their own agendas, and at the end of the day, no better or worse than anybody else's sacred text.*

Both of us have a current belief about scripture that we consider to be correct.

You are unwilling to consider that your belief about scripture is wrong. You believe it's absolutely right and will not question that belief.

Why, then, should I not believe my belief to be absolutely right? What reason do I have to change my belief in scripture when you will not even consider changing yours? If you won't question your belief, what right do you have to ask me to question mine?



*And the Popul Vuh has totally better names. You know where you stand with a bad guy named "Scab Stripper" or "Lord-of-Pus."

 

[Roadtoad]

You know, Kathy, you choose to talk to God.

Me, I talk to my cat.

Let me tell you why:

1.) When I talk to my cat, he purrs. He likes to listen to me. I can reach out and stroke his fur, and while I talk to him, he purrs. I can tell him the worst of what's going on in the world, and yet, he'll sit there in my lap, or lay beside me on the bed, and purr. It might not accomplish much, but the response is helpful. Usually.

2.) When I piss off my cat, he gets up and walks away. He doesn't bite or slap at me. He just walks off. He generally is irked by things I can do something about, such as my picking up the wrong food, or by my choosing to rub his stomach, (something he hates). He doesn't get pissed off if I don't give him money he hasn't earned, or if I get aroused at the sight of a beautiful woman. I guess I'm grateful he doesn't have opposable thumbs; I don't think I could handle being flipped off by my cat.

3.) Little kids like my cat. They wrap their tiny arms around his chest and carry him around the house, telling him what a nice kitty he is. (The cat, for that matter, just hangs there with a "Help me..." look on his face.) I've never known my cat to hurt anyone.

4.) My cat is kind.

5.) My cat is my friend.

6.) My cat is real.

Something to think about.