The Gospel

Aw, he's not so bad. "Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no Humperdink."
 
kurious_kathy said:
Perhaps I am just pleading with people to not be so skeptical. I think all people have purpose and need to find a healthy balance between the process of critical thinking and the realm of being more optomistic.
Click to expand...

But what does THAT have to do with anything ? I have a (usually) positive outlook on life, but I'm a hardcore atheist.

Just my two sense but I don't think it's healthy for people to be cynical about philosophy or religion.
Click to expand...

First off, you have FIVE senses. And second, what about OTHER religions ?

I myself grew up in a home where I felt my Dad was too critical and I don't think it was healthy. Being smart and being critical are not the same thing. Isn't life suppose to be about learning and trying to get along with people? Perhaps because I am not a skeptic, I should just quit trying to talk to one? Sorry but I think there is always room for growth in each and everyone of us!
Click to expand...

Your move, then.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Perhaps I am just pleading with people to not be so skeptical. I think all people have purpose and need to find a healthy balance between the process of critical thinking and the realm of being more optomistic.
Click to expand...

As I said in an earlier post, I am now convinced of your sincerity, so I will make an effort to be more polite to you.

As Spidey13 and others have said (both before and after your post yesterday morning) critical thinking and optimism are not exclusive. Furthermore, even if they were, then Christinity would not necessarily be the best way to find a healthy balance between the two.

Please respond and let us know if you agree with our pointing out that there are not exclusive or if you still maintain that they are.


Just my two sense but I don't think it's healthy for people to be cynical about philosophy or religion.
Click to expand...

Great, then when we suggest that you seriously consider Islam and that you open your mind to it and be more optimistic about Allah, will you do so? If not why not?

I myself grew up in a home where I felt my Dad was too critical and I don't think it was healthy. Being smart and being critical are not the same thing.
Click to expand...

No, they are not. However, being critical and critical thinking have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other.

Isn't life suppose to be about learning and trying to get along with people?
Click to expand...

That's one philosophy, and I suspect that many here subscribe to it. However, if a atheist showed up on a Christian message board and posted a hundred or so messages asking people to consider atheism followed by a complaint about Christians on the board not being optimistic enough to consider a lack of God and not being open-minded enough to consider a lack of God, what might happen? Might that person be ill-received? or even banned? People on this board do not get banned for expressing unpopular views.

Perhaps because I am not a skeptic, I should just quit trying to talk to one?
Click to expand...

No, but you should quit talking to them as if they are children who have never heard the word of God. (perhaps the most important point in my entire response)

Sorry but I think there is always room for growth in each and everyone of us!
Click to expand...

So do most of us. We just disagree about what constitutes healthy growth.
 
Last edited:
kurious_kathy said:
Just my two sense but I don't think it's healthy for people to be cynical about philosophy or religion.
Click to expand...

And yet, earlier, when it was pointed out that your statements about God changing your life were virtually identical to a devout Muslim's statements about Allah, you wouldn't even consider the comparison. You immediately lunged to point out that they were totally different and no way no how were you like a Muslim.

If you're not willing to be open-minded about other people's religions, and look at ones you disagree with and say "Okay, they think they're right, and what if they are? and I'm not?" then how can you possibly ask other people to extend you the same courtesy?

To borrow a phrase, you are just as cynical about religion as the rest of us, Kathy. You dismiss all but one of them as wrong. We're just cynical about one more religion than you are.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Perhaps I am just pleading with people to not be so skeptical. I think all people have purpose and need to find a healthy balance between the process of critical thinking and the realm of being more optomistic.
Just my two sense but I don't think it's healthy for people to be cynical about philosophy or religion.
Click to expand...

You have got to friggin' kidding. This is a skeptics board, you twit.

By 'optimistic', you mean 'woo'. No thank you.

That would be 'two cents'.

I don't think it's healthy for people not to be cynical about philosophy or religion, not to mention being skeptical about them.
 
Complexity said:
You have got to friggin' kidding. This is a skeptics board, you twit.

By 'optimistic', you mean 'woo'. No thank you.

That would be 'two cents'.

I don't think it's healthy for people not to be cynical about philosophy or religion, not to mention being skeptical about them.
Click to expand...
Complexity,
What are you trying to say here. I think I missed that middle part, could you not be so obtuse and just come out and say what's on your mind?
 
kurious_kathy said:
Youv'e got a point. I can't expect anyone here to be reached the same way God reached me. But I would hope others are open to find Him like I did. Or should I be telling others He found me?

(snip)
Click to expand...
Did He lose you at the mall? This happened to my brother when we were kids. He'd crawled under a table and fell asleep.
 
Wow, nearly 20 pages in this thread. It really pays to be a troll/attention whore. Everyone calls them on it, but just can't ignore them.
And I'm just as guilty cause here I am!
 
geetarmoore said:
I did the research and came out diametrically opposed to their outcomes.

I have and did read McDowells apologetic work. Waste of 25 dollars.

What kind of 'Case for Christ' could a real critical thinker make?

JC by name or 'Christians' by group appear in only 4 documents outside of the bible and rejected Gospel texts from that general time in history. One document is suspected of being heavily altered, one of them may actually pertain to someone else, three of the documents come from the second century, and the earliest one was written some 60 years after the supposed crucifixion.

Why didn't any contemporary writers record the amazing story of a guy getting beat to death (see the Mad Max Jesus Movie) then COMMING BACK TO LIFE???!!!????

Doesn't it seem odd that we only have 4 suspicious at best historical records of the most important man the world has ever known?

Moving on to the Biblical accounts.... The Gospel writers were anonymous, even though they like to fool you into thinking these were eyewitness accounts by naming them 'Matt, Mark Luke and John'. There is a real good chance that even the earliest gospel was written late enough that the author couldn't have even been an eyewitness to the life of Christ, if in fact Christ even existed.

What kind of actual critical thinking is there to do on this topic that doesn't end in a big old ball of 'NO FRICKIN' WAY!!!!'?.......
Click to expand...




I seem to recall at least 14 writers of the time, some secular,, some Jew, some Christian, affirming the existence of Jesus Christ here on Terra fir-ma.
Here's a few to research if you like.


JOSEPHUS(37-101 A.D.)

Josephus was born 4 years after the time of Christ's Crucifixion. He was eyewitness to much of he records in first century A.D. He was commissioned by the Romans to write a history of the Jewish people.

Mentions Jesus:Antiquities Book 18, chp3, paragraph 3.

Mentions John The Baptist and Herod: Antiquities Book 18, chapter 5, paragraph 2.

Mentions James, the half brother of Jesus: Antiquities Book 20, Chapter19.



LUCIAN (120-180 A.D.)

A Greek satirist that spoke harshly of both Christ and Christians. He affirms the fact that these were real people. He even speaks of the crucifixion.

Lucian, "The Death of Peregrine" 11-13



SUETONIUS:(69-140 A.D.)

A Roman historian who refers to Christ and Christians as "disturbances" , and makes mention of the Christians being expelled from Rome in 49 A.D. (Acts 18:2)

"Life of Claudius" 25-4



SENECA: (3 B.C. - 65 A.D.)

Mentions the cruel acts and evil deeds done to Christians under Nero.

Epistulae Morales, Epistle 14 "On Reasons for Withdrawing from The World"
 
johnymoonburn said:
I seem to recall at least 14 writers of the time, some secular,, some Jew, some Christian, affirming the existence of Jesus Christ here on Terra fir-ma.
Here's a few to research if you like.


JOSEPHUS(37-101 A.D.)

Josephus was born 4 years after the time of Christ's Crucifixion. He was eyewitness to much of he records in first century A.D. He was commissioned by the Romans to write a history of the Jewish people.

Mentions Jesus:Antiquities Book 18, chp3, paragraph 3.

Mentions John The Baptist and Herod: Antiquities Book 18, chapter 5, paragraph 2.

Mentions James, the half brother of Jesus: Antiquities Book 20, Chapter19.
Click to expand...

Josephus is supposed to have written what is known as the 'Testimonium Flavianum' in the Antiquities, but it is considered by nearly all historians and biblical scholars to have either been greatly altered or added in full by Christian copyists years after the initial writing. Many copies of the document exist in varying forms, with the section in question omitted or in several stages of review. The final form of the testimonium is considered 'too good to be true', and not remotely likely to have been written Josephus.

John and James are not Jesus - this was about historical references to Jesus.

johnymoonburn said:
LUCIAN (120-180 A.D.)

A Greek satirist that spoke harshly of both Christ and Christians. He affirms the fact that these were real people. He even speaks of the crucifixion.

Lucian, "The Death of Peregrine" 11-13
Click to expand...

By 150 CE, it's of little doubt that there were Christians, and the story of the crucifixion would have been in play amongst the Christians. This is NOT contemporary with the life of Jesus.


johnymoonburn said:
SUETONIUS:(69-140 A.D.)

A Roman historian who refers to Christ and Christians as "disturbances" , and makes mention of the Christians being expelled from Rome in 49 A.D. (Acts 18:2)

"Life of Claudius" 25-4
Click to expand...

Again, no one doubts the existence of people calling themselves 'Christians' in that era. This yet again is not writing about Jesus.

johnymoonburn said:
SENECA: (3 B.C. - 65 A.D.)

Mentions the cruel acts and evil deeds done to Christians under Nero.

Epistulae Morales, Epistle 14 "On Reasons for Withdrawing from The World"
Click to expand...

If true, this again mentions Christians but not Jesus....

There is evidence that Christians existed as a religious sect BEFORE the theoretical Christ did. It is not unlikely to have read about them in the era before the supposed crucifixion.
 
UrsulaV said:
If you're not willing to be open-minded about other people's religions, and look at ones you disagree with and say "Okay, they think they're right, and what if they are? and I'm not?" then how can you possibly ask other people to extend you the same courtesy?

To borrow a phrase, you are just as cynical about religion as the rest of us, Kathy. You dismiss all but one of them as wrong. We're just cynical about one more religion than you are.
Click to expand...
I have inquired much on the theories of spirituality in many other cultures including their religions, I just see where some of it is way off. If it doesn't stand up to what scripture says I will call it a lie. This does not mean I don't try to understand why they believe those teachings. I care very much about people and the condition of peoples hearts and minds. But when people are following what I call doctrine of demons, I will say something about it!
Jesus warned us about all the deceptions in this world in these the latter times. He's coming back like he said and I just pray people will look for him while he can be found. Once judgement falls on this earth many will mourn that they denied their creator and I hate to think of a single soul being lost!
 
geetarmoore said:
Josephus is supposed to have written what is known as the 'Testimonium Flavianum' in the Antiquities, but it is considered by nearly all historians and biblical scholars to have either been greatly altered or added in full by Christian copyists years after the initial writing.
Click to expand...

Most Josephus experts contend, in fact, that one of the two references is probably authentic, and that the other reference is only a partial interpolation (in other words, that Josephus did in fact make two such references in the Antiquities).


geetarmoore said:
There is evidence that Christians existed as a religious sect BEFORE the theoretical Christ did.
Click to expand...

To what evidence are you referring?
 
kurious_kathy said:
If it doesn't stand up to what scripture says I will call it a lie.
Click to expand...

That is the whole point. You are so blind you can't see that the scripture may be wrong. You aren't looking into them in any way, shape or form because you have this unfounded belief that the bible is true. You have been brainwashed by your cult just as badly as the folks at Jonestown or the Heaven's Gate cult.
Any real evaluation of other religions has to start with an open mind, and you are as closed minded and cynical as anyone. You somehow think we have a problem and are closed minded because we don't believe in god. The fact of the matter is, you are making yourself a laughingstock because you cast all religions but one aside as if it is the most ridiculous thing in the world to believe what they believe.
Well guess what? Many of those religions predate yours by millenia, and any open minded critical evaluation shows yours as just another in a long line of them. It is founded on principles, beliefs and legends of the religions that came before it. There's nothing new.
 
Donks said:
I don't understand this line, could you explain what you mean?
Click to expand...
Well as a New Testament believer I still have much to learn about theology but I do understand the Bible and it has real life applications to me. I can ask anything I need of God and then look it up in scripture. I accept the Bible as the inspired word of God which was written by people filled with the Holy Spirit. These are what I call spiritual insights that I try to apply each day to my own life.
Like when I first started reading scripture I would use my ready reference that would cover a topic I wanted to know about. When I look it up the scripture pertaining to a particular question, I see what God says about it and then I put it into action in my own life. It's not only a love letter to me, but God gives me the instructions I need to base my own morals and principles in which I choose to live by. I take God's word by faith, but I know God's word is alive and active in me so it does have applicable meaning to each and every persons life.
Like the interpretation of do unto others as you would want others to do unto you. If I want to be respected, then I must respect others. If I want others to love me unconditionally, then I must love them unconditionally. These are just a couple of examples but I do believe we reap what we sow!
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom