Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

[Hercules56]

Sweden has a very high rape rate - and, it seems, does have a problem with the imported kind:

https://unherd.com/2021/04/swedens-migrant-rape-crisis/

On the basis of population records kept by the official agency Statistics Sweden (SCB), approximately 20% (19.7%) of the Swedish population are foreign-born individuals. Among those convicted of rape and perpetrated rape, the foreign-born account for 47.7% of those convicted — so they are over-represented by a factor of 2.4.

Europe should instead focus on prosecuting all their thousands of rapist priests.

 

[Poem]

Europe should instead focus on prosecuting all their thousands of rapist priests.

We can do both.

 

[Darat]

Sweden has a very high rape rate - and, it seems, does have a problem with the imported kind:

https://unherd.com/2021/04/swedens-migrant-rape-crisis/

On the basis of population records kept by the official agency Statistics Sweden (SCB), approximately 20% (19.7%) of the Swedish population are foreign-born individuals. Among those convicted of rape and perpetrated rape, the foreign-born account for 47.7% of those convicted — so they are over-represented by a factor of 2.4.

In convictions.

 

[Poem]

UN human rights expert Reem Alsalem, the special rapporteur on the causes and consequences of violence against women and girls, has issued a report advocating the abolition of prostitution. In addition, she calls for countries to abolish pornography and criminalize its possession and production.

Violence against women is prolific in pornography. An analysis of popular pornography videos completed in 2010 uncovered that 88.2 per cent of scenes contained acts of physical assault (e.g., gagging, choking or strangulation); 48.7 per cent contained acts of degrading verbal name-calling (i.e., bitch). Women in pornography often recounted being exposed to rectal and throat gonorrhoea; tearing of the throat, vagina and anus; and chlamydia of the eye. Prostituted women and girls are subjected to non consensual image-based sexual abuse and cyberflashing. The same applies to pornography generated by artificial intelligence. According to one analysis, more than 96 per cent of pornography generated by artificial intelligence was produced without the consent of the individual featured. In 2022 alone, there were over 100,000 computer generated non-consensual images of women online. Victims of pornography generated by artificial intelligence, adolescents, especially girls, can suffer isolation, school bullying and harassment. They are therefore often retraumatized.

The perceived right of men to purchase a sex act normalizes the systematic violence inflicted on women through prostitution, including in pornography, as it erases the boundaries between what counts as sex and what counts as sexual violence. The violence enacted against women in pornography, such as strangulation and defecation, is often re-enacted against girls and women by those who consume pornography in the physical world, such as strangulation and defecation. The increase in rape, including gang rape, can be linked to the increased male consumption of pornography. Studies also show that men who pay for sexual acts have a low level of empathy for women in prostitution and feel that they are different from other women. Sexual act buyers are well aware that women in prostitution do not engage voluntarily, but they believe that absolves them of responsibility. A metaanalysis conducted in 2015 found that exposure to non-violent and violent pornography resulted in increases in both attitudes and supporting aggression and actual aggression against women and children. More frequent users of pornography were also the most frequent users of women in prostitution. Many adolescent boys seek out prostituted women and girls to be “sexually initiated”.

 

[Poem]

Clearly, someone isn't frightened of telling it like it is.

 

[Poem]

"The perceived right of men to purchase a sex act normalises the systematic violence inflicted on women through prostitution, including pornography, because it erases the boundaries between what counts as sex and what counts as sexual violence."

https://youtu.be/9ROBOAZsstc?t=461

 

[theprestige]

UN human rights expert Reem Alsalem, the special rapporteur on the causes and consequences of violence against women and girls, has issued a report advocating the abolition of prostitution. In addition, she calls for countries to abolish pornography and criminalize its possession and production.

That's all very well, but what do have for those of us who don't recognize UN spokespeople as a priori authorities on moral good or sociopolitical guidance?

 

[Poem]

That's all very well, but what do have for those of us who don't recognize UN spokespeople as a priori authorities on moral good or sociopolitical guidance?

Come back when you have something substantive TP.

 

[Roboramma]

Come back when you have something substantive TP.

That's basically what he's asking you to do. You have an argument from a questionable authority, but what is the actual evidence to back up that authority's position? Instead of quoting a UN spokesperson, why don't you tell us what supports that opinion? Ie. give us something substantive.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

There is nothing that explicitly mentions porn (no surprise) - but there is 1 Corinthians 6:18-20:
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honour God with your bodies.

The Jesus verse I previously posted is perhaps the most relevant since it mentions 'lust' and 'looking at a woman'.
Interesting contrast with pure Darwinism where there is zero prohibition of watching porn (obviously) - in fact porn would be a natural outcome...though paradoxically, it may be resulting in less offspring.

Oh dear, nice to see that you are still parrotting extremeist nonsense.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Children, not boys, not being a pedantic pain but for some reason people assume the abuse was mainly against male children, it wasn’t the RCC abuse included female and male children.

And we're seeing plenty of indications that the protestant churches are just as bad. For example, just look at the SBC's cover up of child sexual abuse within its ranks, or how the CoI mother and baby homes dealt with their charges across the two jurisdictions in Ireland.

 

[Poem]

You have an argument from a questionable authority,

Please feel free to demonstrate that.

Alsalem received some 300 submissions from a wide range of stakeholders. She also convened seven online consultations with 86 experts and women with lived experiences from across all continents.

but what is the actual evidence to back up that authority's position? Instead of quoting a UN spokesperson,

Nothing wrong with quoting someone whom the UN has asked to report on the issue. See above.

why don't you tell us what supports that opinion? Ie. give us something substantive.

This thread.

Do you have any expertise in on this subject Roboramma? If you don't then you'll need to quote someone who does.

 

[Poem]

Oh dear, nice to see that you are still parrotting extremeist nonsense.

Except you didn't spell out what is extreme in my post. Before you assert something is nonsense, why don't you explain in detail why that's the case?

Here's the post that you never responded to #212. It's four months old.

I'll wait till you do.

 

[Ziggurat]

You have an argument from a questionable authority,

Alsalem received some 300 submissions from a wide range of stakeholders.

"Stakeholders": activists who have a financial interest in making a problem seem as bad as possible.

Now, in some cases the problem is bad. The prospect of being a woman in Afghanistan is horrific. But that's beside the point here. Right here, we're questioning where Alsalem gets her authority. And you're basically saying she derives it from the authority of a bunch of other people, who are authorities because they say so. Which isn't really an effective way of establishing authority.

And the number of submissions is kind of irrelevant. What's much more relevant is the quality of their data. But you know what's conspicuously sparse in her report? Objective, reliable data. If she's relying on such data from those submissions, she did not actually include that data in the report to any significant degree. It seems she's relying primarily on other people's opinions in order to justify her own opinions. Which might sometimes be correct, but there's no way of verifying any of it in any objective sense.

Do you have any expertise in on this subject Roboramma? If you don't then you'll need to quote someone who does.

Again, you keep appealing to "expertise", without having established that these people actually are experts.

 

[Ziggurat]

Oh dear, nice to see that you are still parrotting extremeist nonsense.

This is a very peculiar criticism. It's pretty well established that there is a strong correlation between decreasing religious affiliation and decreasing birth rates. One might argue that this correlation doesn't establish causation, and that's true, but suspecting a causation when one observes a correlation isn't extremist, even if it's wrong. And it hasn't been established that it's wrong either.

 

[Roboramma]

Please feel free to demonstrate that.

By "questionable authority" I simply mean someone whose authority hasn't been demonstrated. If you have something meaningful to say to demonstrate her authority and expertise with respect to this issue, feel free to say it.

Alsalem received some 300 submissions from a wide range of stakeholders. She also convened seven online consultations with 86 experts and women with lived experiences from across all continents.

None of that tells me that she's right about what you quoted her saying.

Nothing wrong with quoting someone whom the UN has asked to report on the issue. See above.

Of course not, you can quote whoever you like, but I'm not going to just assume that what they say is true simply because they say it.

This thread.

This thread has not demonstrated the veracity of your claims.

Do you have any expertise in on this subject Roboramma? If you don't then you'll need to quote someone who does.

That's not how it works. We don't find out what's true by quoting experts, we find out what's true by examining evidence. You need to actually start presenting some, rather than just quoting people. For instance, you cited the conclusions of a report, but what you should have done is cited the reasoning within the report that its authors claim leads to those conclusions.

 

[Poem]

"Stakeholders": activists who have a financial interest in making a problem seem as bad as possible.

Now, in some cases the problem is bad. The prospect of being a woman in Afghanistan is horrific. But that's beside the point here. Right here, we're questioning where Alsalem gets her authority. And you're basically saying she derives it from the authority of a bunch of other people, who are authorities because they say so. Which isn't really an effective way of establishing authority.

And the number of submissions is kind of irrelevant. What's much more relevant is the quality of their data. But you know what's conspicuously sparse in her report? Objective, reliable data. If she's relying on such data from those submissions, she did not actually include that data in the report to any significant degree. It seems she's relying primarily on other people's opinions in order to justify her own opinions. Which might sometimes be correct, but there's no way of verifying any of it in any objective sense.

Again, you keep appealing to "expertise", without having established that these people actually are experts.

Let's look at one such submission - Prostitution Research and Education. They have produced a report based on interviews with 104 men and women in the sex trade in Sweden 'most of whose prostitution was photographed, videotaped, or live-streamed'.

They say:

84% of our interviewees had been raped while in the sex trade. Rapists included sex buyers, boyfriends, pimps, pornography fans, pornography producers, pornography actors, and pornography directors. 27% had been prevented from using a condom during the production of pornography, an act that is considered a life-threatening assault by some courts.

Also, was hoping for some clarity on the effectively decriminalized of rape in the UK -#738

 

[Poem]

By "questionable authority" I simply mean someone whose authority hasn't been demonstrated. If you have something meaningful to say to demonstrate her authority and expertise with respect to this issue, feel free to say it.

None of that tells me that she's right about what you quoted her saying.



Of course not, you can quote whoever you like, but I'm not going to just assume that what they say is true simply because they say it.



This thread has not demonstrated the veracity of your claims.



That's not how it works. We don't find out what's true by quoting experts, we find out what's true by examining evidence. You need to actually start presenting some, rather than just quoting people. For instance, you cited the conclusions of a report, but what you should have done is cited the reasoning within the report that its authors claim leads to those conclusions.

Masses of evidence has been presented in this thread. I haven't seen any rebuttal from you. Perhaps you haven't read everything that's been posted here?

 

[3point14]

Masses of evidence has been presented in this thread. I haven't seen any rebuttal from you. Perhaps you haven't read everything that's been posted here?

I'm not sure you understand what 'evidence' means.

What you refer to as evidence seems to mostly just be opinion.

I don't think you understand what the difference is.

 

[Poem]

I'm not sure you understand what 'evidence' means.

What you refer to as evidence seems to mostly just be opinion.

I don't think you understand what the difference is.

It's an opinion that content suggestive of sexual activity with children is rife on mainstream porn sites? Barnardo's opinion?

The open letter sent a year ago to the prime minister of the UK includes:

Pornography has a far-reaching, cross-societal impact. As well as causing harm to children, some pornography promotes violence against women and girls and can result in children being trafficked into the pornography industry. There is also evidence that legal content can act as a ‘gateway’ to extreme and hardcore material, including illegal child sexual abuse material. Some users go on to view content that is more and more extreme, until the next click is illegal child sexual abuse material. In some cases, this leads to them contacting and abusing children online and offline. This content therefore poses an immediate risk to children.

List of signatories:

Baroness Benjamin OM DBE DL
Baroness Kidron, Chair of 5Rights Foundation
Rt Hon. Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top
Baroness Foster of Aghadrumsee
Baroness Newlove
Baroness Bertin
Baroness Parminter
Baroness Prashar CBE
Baroness Healy of Primrose Hill
Baroness Grey-Thompson DBE DL
Baroness Jolly
Baroness Hussein-Ece
Baroness Janke
Baroness Thornhill MBE
Baroness Randerson
Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick
Baroness Lister of Burtersett
Lord Alton of Liverpool
Lord Browne of Belmont
Lord Foster of Bath
Rt Hon Lord McNally
Lord Morrow of the Clogher Valley
Lord McColl of Dulwich
Lord Rennard MBE
Lord Russell of Liverpool
Rt Reverend Dr Steven Croft, Bishop of Oxford
Rt Reverend Andrew Watson, Bishop of Guildford
Rt Hon Dame Diana Johnson DBE MP
Tim Loughton MP
Sarah Champion MP
Taiwo Owatemi MP
Rt Hon Kelly Tolhurst MP
Rt Hon Sir Desmond Swayne TD MP
Steve McCabe MP
Janet Finch-Saunders MS, Shadow Minister for Climate Change, Welsh Parliament
Darren Millar MS
Rhianon Passmore MS
APPG on Commercial Sexual Exploitation
Lynn Perry MBE, Chief Executive of Barnardo’s
Naomi Miles, Founder and Chair of CEASE
Georgia Harrison
Sir Peter Wanless, CEO, NSPCC
Ruth Davison, CEO of Refuge
Ellen Miller, Interim CEO of Safelives
Sara Kirkpatrick, CEO of Welsh Women’s Aid
Mark Russell, CEO of The Children’s Society
Paul Carberry, CEO of Action for Children
Susie Hargreaves OBE, CEO of Internet Watch Foundation (IWF)
Professor Phil Banfield, Chair of the British Medical Association Council
Deborah Denis, CEO of Lucy Faithfull Foundation
Ross Hendry, CEO of Care
UK Feminista
Laila Mackelwait, Founder and CEO of Justice Defense Fund
William Perrin, Trustee, Carnegie UK
Melissa Milner, Director of External Affairs and Partnerships at Catch 22
Vicki Shotbolt, CEO of Parentzone
Will Gardner OBE, CEO of Childnet and Director of UKSIC
Dawn Hawkins, CEO of National Centre on Sexual Exploitation
Haley McNamara, Director, International Centre on Sexual Exploitation
John Carr, Secretary of CHIS
Victoria Green, CEO of Marie Collins Foundation
David Wright, CEO SWGfL and Director of UKSIC
Emma Hardy, Director of UKSIC
Julia Beazley, Director of Public Policy, The Centre for Faith and Public Life
Andrew Hawkins, Director of Democracy 3.0
Lianna McDonald, Executive Director, Canadian Centre for Child Protection
NordicModelNow!
Gretchen Peters, Executive Director, Alliance to Counter Crime Online
Helen Taylor, Vice-President of Exodus Cry
The Reward Foundation
Stephen Kinsella, Founder, Clean Up The Internet
Professor Sonia Livingstone, London School of Economics (Department of Media and Communications)
Dr Elly Hanson, Clinical Psychologist and author of Pornography and Human Futures
Professor Henrietta Bowden-Jones OBE
Abhilash Nair, Associate Professor of Internet Law, University of Exeter
Carole Murphy, Director of Bakhita Centre for Research on Slavery Exploitation and Abuse, Associate Professor, Criminology and Sociology, Faculty of Business and Law, St Mary’s University
Neena Samota, Programme Director for Criminology and Sociology at St Mary’s University
Paulette Simpson CBE

You think this situation is acceptable?